Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
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16-12-2013, 06:58 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 06:52 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 06:47 PM)thedudette Wrote:  It's frightening to think that religion could cause mental illness.
I guess in some cases but I mean pre-existing conditions that a person might suffer such as Schizophrenia.

Oops XD

I don't know much about Schizophrenia but if someone who was officially diagnosed by a doctor had to take medicine, and therapy shouldn't the person understand that it was just a hallucination? If they knew that their experience was a matter of the Schizophrenia I'd hope that it would make them stop telling people that they've genuinely talked to their deity.
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16-12-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 06:45 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  When I came to the clear realization that I had slowly become atheist, I was not met with a sense of "I was wrong this whole time". For me it was more "I was misled all along by all those people." This is not to say I was not wrong. It just wasn't the main focus of my initial disillusionment.
For me, I had no one to blame. I indoctrinated myself. I was so sure it was true. But it ended up being a house of cards.

(16-12-2013 06:47 PM)thedudette Wrote:  It's frightening to think that religion could cause mental illness.
It doesn't cause it per se, but it does provide plenty of fertile ground for it to grow (invisible man in the sky, angels, the devil, etc) specially if there's family history of mental illness, personal substance abuse (including THC before adulthood) or both.

(16-12-2013 06:53 PM)thedudette Wrote:  Did you devote most of your life to religion?
Not really. Most of my adult life, yes.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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16-12-2013, 07:13 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
I actually know several people who claim to have had a personal "experience" with god or Jesus.
With this sample I can say that none of them are lying, at least not consciously.
But along with their subconscious pulling confirmation bias strings and pissing logic out the window, it also prevents them from exploring the "experience".

From the mouth of two of them (after i badgered them) , "I know what I experienced, who am i to question its authenticity".
Sometimes I think that is all it takes to be an Atheist, that is to question the motivation of ones self conscious.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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16-12-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
Manipulation. It's scary how easily it can be done.

I don't have much experience in converting people (I never did, as a young Jehovah's Witness), but I do understand somewhat the mechanics behind it, to the point where if I ever did want to go back to that faith, I could easily get reprogrammed back into their ways. I was raised in that cult, and have seen many people leave and come back and become assimilated back into the collective within months. Again, it's scary how easily it can be done.

What made me want to go back was an easy enough answer: I wanted to be happy. I wanted that conscious contact with that god again because it made me feel happy.

But the more complicated question was this: what was making me happy? I understand now religion to be a man-made construct. So, the emotions might be real and what I felt was very powerful - very much what I wanted - but that version of artificial happy concoction doesn't do it for me anymore. Why? Because I understand that the manipulation behind it serves someone Else's purpose and not mine. It serves that or an organization; a cult.

Some people believe in what they believe because it makes them happy, because they want to feel happy. It makes them as individuals, with their experiences, feel validated and reinforces their happiness to the nth degree. It satisfies in its own way what people want in an instant. Who actively seeks out being unhappy? We as humans go to great lengths, even to a point of suffering from delusions sometimes. It's a scary thought.

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16-12-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 07:10 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 06:45 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  When I came to the clear realization that I had slowly become atheist, I was not met with a sense of "I was wrong this whole time". For me it was more "I was misled all along by all those people." This is not to say I was not wrong. It just wasn't the main focus of my initial disillusionment.
For me, I had no one to blame. I indoctrinated myself. I was so sure it was true. But it ended up being a house of cards.

You may have indoctrinated yourself for the most part, but you didn't invent the religion or foster its hold on society to the extent it has today.....did you? We are talking about Christianity, right? I should have asked. Because yeah, if you invented the whole thing on your own, I agree, that's pretty messed up. Very creative, but still messed up...in a way.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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16-12-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 06:58 PM)thedudette Wrote:  I don't know much about Schizophrenia but if someone who was officially diagnosed by a doctor had to take medicine, and therapy shouldn't the person understand that it was just a hallucination? If they knew that their experience was a matter of the Schizophrenia I'd hope that it would make them stop telling people that they've genuinely talked to their deity.
You'd be surprised. I spent two weeks hospitalized with people with all kinds of delusions. One guy thought he was a General in World War III. He had been hospitalized before. I meet a few people that relapsed. I met a girl who thought she was Katniss from the Hunger Games. Another guy that thought he was a prophet, and others that were to shy to mention their delusions.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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16-12-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 07:10 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 06:45 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  When I came to the clear realization that I had slowly become atheist, I was not met with a sense of "I was wrong this whole time". For me it was more "I was misled all along by all those people." This is not to say I was not wrong. It just wasn't the main focus of my initial disillusionment.
For me, I had no one to blame. I indoctrinated myself. I was so sure it was true. But it ended up being a house of cards.

(16-12-2013 06:47 PM)thedudette Wrote:  It's frightening to think that religion could cause mental illness.
It doesn't cause it per se, but it does provide plenty of fertile ground for it to grow (invisible man in the sky, angels, the devil, etc) specially if there's family history of mental illness, personal substance abuse (including THC before adulthood) or both.

(16-12-2013 06:53 PM)thedudette Wrote:  Did you devote most of your life to religion?
Not really. Most of my adult life, yes.

It's scary thinking that a man could judge you if you even think about anything that is sinful that you could be damned for all eternity. So I can see how that plants a seed in an already developing illness.
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16-12-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 06:58 PM)thedudette Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 06:52 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I guess in some cases but I mean pre-existing conditions that a person might suffer such as Schizophrenia.

Oops XD

I don't know much about Schizophrenia but if someone who was officially diagnosed by a doctor had to take medicine, and therapy shouldn't the person understand that it was just a hallucination? If they knew that their experience was a matter of the Schizophrenia I'd hope that it would make them stop telling people that they've genuinely talked to their deity.
If they are diagnosed. If they seek treatment. Lets not forget about all these cults around all claiming they have some special message from god or aliens Its all very confusing you can only speculate what is wrong with them. They scariest scenario would be if just one of them was genuine. Now how would that be proven?

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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16-12-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 07:19 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Manipulation. It's scary how easily it can be done.

I don't have much experience in converting people (I never did, as a young Jehovah's Witness), but I do understand somewhat the mechanics behind it, to the point where if I ever did want to go back to that faith, I could easily get reprogrammed back into their ways. I was raised in that cult, and have seen many people leave and come back and become assimilated back into the collective within months. Again, it's scary how easily it can be done.

What made me want to go back was an easy enough answer: I wanted to be happy. I wanted that conscious contact with that god again because it made me feel happy.

But the more complicated question was this: what was making me happy? I understand now religion to be a man-made construct. So, the emotions might be real and what I felt was very powerful - very much what I wanted - but that version of artificial happy concoction doesn't do it for me anymore. Why? Because I understand that the manipulation behind it serves someone Else's purpose and not mine. It serves that or an organization; a cult.

Some people believe in what they believe because it makes them happy, because they want to feel happy. It makes them as individuals, with their experiences, feel validated and reinforces their happiness to the nth degree. It satisfies in its own way what people want in an instant. Who actively seeks out being unhappy? We as humans go to great lengths, even to a point of suffering from delusions sometimes. It's a scary thought.

You know you can't go back now, right? You're one of us now. You have been assimilated to the new collective. Just sayin'.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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16-12-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: Why are people so convinced that they've heard/seen a deity?
(16-12-2013 07:23 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(16-12-2013 07:19 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Manipulation. It's scary how easily it can be done.

I don't have much experience in converting people (I never did, as a young Jehovah's Witness), but I do understand somewhat the mechanics behind it, to the point where if I ever did want to go back to that faith, I could easily get reprogrammed back into their ways. I was raised in that cult, and have seen many people leave and come back and become assimilated back into the collective within months. Again, it's scary how easily it can be done.

What made me want to go back was an easy enough answer: I wanted to be happy. I wanted that conscious contact with that god again because it made me feel happy.

But the more complicated question was this: what was making me happy? I understand now religion to be a man-made construct. So, the emotions might be real and what I felt was very powerful - very much what I wanted - but that version of artificial happy concoction doesn't do it for me anymore. Why? Because I understand that the manipulation behind it serves someone Else's purpose and not mine. It serves that or an organization; a cult.

Some people believe in what they believe because it makes them happy, because they want to feel happy. It makes them as individuals, with their experiences, feel validated and reinforces their happiness to the nth degree. It satisfies in its own way what people want in an instant. Who actively seeks out being unhappy? We as humans go to great lengths, even to a point of suffering from delusions sometimes. It's a scary thought.

You know you can't go back now, right? You're one of us now. You have been assimilated to the new collective. Just sayin'.

Sure thing, boss. Thumbsup

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