Why are we allies with Israel again?
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29-05-2011, 06:19 PM
Why are we allies with Israel again?
It's just one of those things you never really think about until we have to diplomatically intervene, and we take Israel's side, and they blow us off and you go "well it's a good thing we've got that bond of... the... wait"

We've (the US) been Israel's ally since I was a wee lass. And the only reason I can think of is religious based. Our presidents, backed by a sea of angry christians, took the side of Israel because they are God's people and we are their like-minded buddies.

I've heard comments that it's because we are supporting the ideology of democracy in foreign countries.

Well if that's true, then why aren't we helping all these other countries?

[Image: 800px-Electoral_democracies.png]


My knowledge of the history of country relations is a tad... nonexistent. Someone help me out here.

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29-05-2011, 06:23 PM
 
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
[Image: gold.jpg]
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29-05-2011, 08:07 PM
 
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
Exactly as you say. God's people. Oh it might not have been exactly that at the conception of Israel. Or the rebirth [However you wish to term it.] The Jewish people were scattered and beaten after WW2. No one wanted to carry the brunt of that immigration influx. Especially in light of all the destroyed infrastructure they already had to deal with. Problems feeding your native population compounded with feeding a few million Jewish immigrants?

The easy solution was to give all of the Jewish people a new home. Take it from the middle east. Its not like the Ottoman's were still around as a power. It was easy to just annex a section of land and call it Israel.

Then in the 1950s, from my understanding, a huge Christian movement began to appear in the States. It become religious suicide to speak out against Israel. 'Well they are God's people.' and some stuff about Jerusalem and Christ returning.

Its so ingrained in the latest generations that justification isn't needed. Its just wrong to speak bad about Israel. Now eat your veggies little Timmy or Lilith will co- oh wait, wrong religion.
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29-05-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
(29-05-2011 06:23 PM)Celestus87 Wrote:  [Image: gold.jpg]

I'm pretty sure that is not it. Israel takes a lot of money from the US and offers little in return. In contrast, many of their enemies are oil producing countries who would probably happily reward the US if we stopped providing Israel arms and then turned a blind eye while they worked to eradicate Israel off the map. So, this is not a money issue. If it was, it would have gone the other way.

I think what you've got here is a number of things in play, as follows:
1. There was the collective guilt of not doing anything to stop the Holocaust when we could have bombed the rail lines to at least slow things down. Impossible to know if that would have saved anyone but we could have tried, and did not.
2. The Arabs sided with the Germans, and the Germans lost.
3. Israel was the first democracy in the middle east. US policy is to back democracies.
4. While Jews are a small minority in the US, they tend to live in concentrated areas and could conceivably swing a Presidential election. I'm not sure that is still true but it certainly was for many, many years. And, the Jewish minority is not augmented by the Christian right so the issue is still very much political.
5. For the most part, the Israeli's really had the moral high ground for most of their history and deserved to be defended by the US. Their goals were consistent with our goals. I'm not so sure that either of those statements is really true today, though. I think the Israeli's have really lost the moral high ground in their treatment of the Palestinians the last few years. Not that the Palestinians are angels by any definition, but our policy of blindly following Israel down any hole they chose to run down is lunacy. I'm not a big fan of Obama but I agree with his basic view on Israel that they have to make compromises. I'm not sure the 1967 boarders are the right solution, but something has to give.

But, the basic answer to your question is we do it for both historical and political reasons.

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30-05-2011, 07:52 AM
 
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
(29-05-2011 08:14 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 06:23 PM)Celestus87 Wrote:  [Image: gold.jpg]

I'm pretty sure that is not it. Israel takes a lot of money from the US and offers little in return. In contrast, many of their enemies are oil producing countries who would probably happily reward the US if we stopped providing Israel arms and then turned a blind eye while they worked to eradicate Israel off the map. So, this is not a money issue. If it was, it would have gone the other way.

Maybe, its not a direct money-in-your-pocket thing. By supporting the bloodlust of Israel, US is able to make a fortune on selling arms to Europe and Northern Africa.

It's not a coincidence that the US has such a shitload of bases and camps in the Mediterranean area.
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30-05-2011, 08:05 AM
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
No, it's not a coincidence, but it probably has more to do with a) there is oil in the MidEast and b) we are currently fighting 2 wars in the region.

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30-05-2011, 08:14 AM
 
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
(30-05-2011 08:05 AM)BnW Wrote:  No, it's not a coincidence, but it probably has more to do with a) there is oil in the MidEast and b) we are currently fighting 2 wars in the region.

You are always kinda fighting at least one war in the area... The first one I personally remember was Yugoslavia. I think that the cold-war officially ended only a couple of years before I was born.
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30-05-2011, 09:36 AM
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
Well , from a logistic standpoint Israel is a lone democracy in the middle east and does offer the US an advantage in case of conflict.(from what I see on that map)

Also , I don't think we should judge Israel as a homogenous entity. While you have far-right political party and fundamentalist religious groups pushing an agenda of "holy land" the more progressive element is willing to go back even to 1967 borders if it would ensure peace.

And I have to say for as flawed as Israel is , it is , if you will the lesser evil when compared to the dictatorship regimes in the region.

Also , this speech always impressed me :
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContri...?id=195602

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30-05-2011, 04:37 PM
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
It amazes me how much grief Israel takes from the rest of the world. I recall when Arafat died there were people in France actually weeping about it on TV. You want to talk about bloodlust, go look into Arafat's history and the things he's done and the murders he's committed.

That said, I think Israel's current position on the Palestinians and settlements and boarders, etc. is short-sighted and suicidal. Israel is like the US in that, historically, they didn't pick fights but they finished them. Like the US, they have crossed a line that they can not easily come back from now. They did not have a lot of world support prior to that, but now they have close to none.

You know you've really fucked things up when people are siding with terrorists over you.

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30-05-2011, 04:47 PM
 
RE: Why are we allies with Israel again?
(30-05-2011 04:37 PM)BnW Wrote:  You know you've really fucked things up when people are siding with terrorists over you.

And who is the terrorist in this story? The Palestinians that have their schools and hospitals booby-trapped and exploded or the Israelis who cry bloody murder and tug America's sleeve when they need more "hugs". Dodgy
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