Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
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01-09-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 07:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-08-2014 07:43 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well what do you expect, feminism by definition is for women's rights only...

Not according to feminists.

So there's that.

But according to history and definitions it is.

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01-09-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 07:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 07:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Not according to feminists.

So there's that.

But according to history and definitions it is.

This is the monkey debate all over again, you are wrong get over it.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-09-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 07:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  But according to history and definitions it is.

This is the monkey debate all over again, you are wrong get over it.

Sorry but it is by definition for womens rights only. Any definition that says rights for all?

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01-09-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:07 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is the monkey debate all over again, you are wrong get over it.

Sorry but it is by definition for womens rights only. Any definition that says rights for all?

A rising tide raises all ships, equality not only helps women but men as well.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-09-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:07 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Sorry but it is by definition for womens rights only. Any definition that says rights for all?

A rising tide raises all ships, equality not only helps women but men as well.

I can help men, but it does mean it will. Take a look at these definitions.

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
The issue of rights for women first became prominent during the French and American revolutions in the late 18th century. In Britain it was not until the emergence of the suffragette movement in the late 19th century that there was significant political change. A ‘second wave’ of feminism arose in the 1960s, with an emphasis on unity and sisterhood

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/def...h/feminism

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminism

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dicti...h/feminism

So by definition if you are not a woman, feminism is not here to help you. A rising tide might raise all ships, but it does not mean it will help all of them.

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01-09-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:07 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is the monkey debate all over again, you are wrong get over it.

Sorry but it is by definition for womens rights only. Any definition that says rights for all?

That's simply a poor phrasing. Feminism was/is intended to correct injustices against women.

So it is certainly for women's rights. It was never for women's rights only.

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01-09-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:18 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A rising tide raises all ships, equality not only helps women but men as well.

I can help men, but it does mean it will. Take a look at these definitions.

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
The issue of rights for women first became prominent during the French and American revolutions in the late 18th century. In Britain it was not until the emergence of the suffragette movement in the late 19th century that there was significant political change. A ‘second wave’ of feminism arose in the 1960s, with an emphasis on unity and sisterhood

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/def...h/feminism

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminism

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dicti...h/feminism

So by definition if you are not a woman, feminism is not here to help you. A rising tide might raise all ships, but it does not mean it will help all of them.

Now lets stop living in fantasy land where the fortunes of one group of people do not affect the rest of society. Just as civil rights for Blacks improved conditions across the board giving equal rights to women improves things for everyone. You my friend are far to hung up on that one phrase that you miss the rest of the goal. You are young still and rather inexperienced so it is understandable why you think like you do, but it does not make it correct.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-09-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:07 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Sorry but it is by definition for womens rights only. Any definition that says rights for all?

A rising tide raises all ships, equality not only helps women but men as well.

This.

I don't like the term 'feminism' because people abuse it's meaning, and because people confuse its meaning. While I am a feminist as a subset of humanism, I prefer not to use the term feminist because it is narrow. I'm interested in having equal rights for humans. Thumbsup

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01-09-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
We're obsessing over feminism? But who're the ones who keep making threads about how evil it is, making up their own claims about what the feminist movement represents *without even reading the fucking wikipedia article*, and refusing to accept anyone else's opinion on the matter? Is it any wonder that people challenge that kinda bullshit? Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-09-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Why are we obsessed with feminism again?
(01-09-2014 08:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Just as civil rights for Blacks improved conditions across the board giving equal rights to women improves things for everyone.

However civil right is not just a black thing. The difference is as feminism is always for women only, civil rights is for the rights of people. Heck when the blacks where doing civil rights so where the Hispanics. So if the civil rights of blacks helps others it is no surprise as civil rights by definition is for rights of all.

(01-09-2014 08:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You my friend are far to hung up on that one phrase that you miss the rest of the goal.

Well that is what feminism is by definition. Can one act form feminism cross over and positively affect men? Sure. Does that mean feminism is also for the rights of men? No. Can feminist want to help the rights of others? Yes. You see I have no problem with feminism, nor do I have a problem with its stance in fact I am for it. However for me to be a feminist would be redundant. You see as one that you would call a humanist I support rights of all humans. And because women are female humans as men are male humans, they too are part of it. I am not saying there is nothing wrong with feminism, or that it is useless, but to say feminism is for the rights of all and not just women, would contradict every definition and even contradict the origin of the name, and that when a feminist steps out of helping only womens rights, then they are not doing anything relating to feminism. No and I do not mean we pass one right for women that ended up helping men in the process, I mean they work to help men for one right, that would not be feminism, even if feminist are involved.

(01-09-2014 08:46 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You are young still and rather inexperienced so it is understandable why you think like you do, but it does not make it correct.

I hate this excuse. If this was valid, then every time a debate a creationist your age and up my well placed argument would be dismissed with this. I understand if we were in the age without the internet, but we have the internet. Now everyone of any age can be informed with one bing or google search. It is not so much the inexperienced part, but the young part. My problem is that this is used to dismiss someone who is young in order to make it seem easy. Also understanding me is impossible.

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