"Why are you being cynical?"
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24-09-2010, 07:15 AM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2010 07:26 AM by Kikko.)
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
Quote:But then I look at the tone of this website, and many of the posts on here, with people unceremoniously mocking the beliefs of theists and Christians, insulting their intelligence for believing in "fairy tales". That kind of behavior is not "good" in my book, moral compass or not.
You're forgetting something, most of us are atheists, and the joking goes on among atheists. I do'nt think we have many (if we even have have one?) people here who would start insulting christians in a group which contains many christians (I said many because of Barley being here, but I think you'll get the point).
I'll put it in other words: Not many, maybe none, of us would joke about religion if we'd be aware that we're on a website which has christian users who'll get hurt.

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24-09-2010, 07:21 AM
 
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
(24-09-2010 07:15 AM)Kikko Wrote:  
Quote:But then I look at the tone of this website, and many of the posts on here, with people unceremoniously mocking the beliefs of theists and Christians, insulting their intelligence for believing in "fairy tales". That kind of behavior is not "good" in my book, moral compass or not.
You're forgetting something, most of us are atheists, and the joking goes on among atheists. I do'nt think we have many people here who would start making fun of christians when alot of them are present.

Hi Kikko,

So are you saying that you really don't think theists, Christians, and creationists are crazy fairy-tale believers worthy of being mocked, and that the comments here are just good-natured ribbing that's just a joke and not really true? And you see no problem with acting one way when talking with your atheist friends and another way when Christians are around?

I'm not picking a fight, I just want to make sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say here. And I also want to reiterate that I'm sure the same kind of stuff happens on Christian forums as well.

Thanks for clarifying,

Barley
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24-09-2010, 07:26 AM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
(24-09-2010 07:04 AM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  EDIT: I was writing this response before I saw Cetaceaphile's reply. I guess I was right that your family has been giving you the business! One thing about what you said struck me, and has struck me in other threads as well. As an atheist, why are you affected/offended when someone tells you you are going to hell?

Because those people do believe that there is some sort of eternal fire, and if they tell me thats where I'm going that just shows how little they think of me.

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24-09-2010, 07:34 AM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2010 07:39 AM by Kikko.)
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
Quote:So are you saying that you really don't think theists, Christians, and creationists are crazy fairy-tale believers worthy of being mocked, and that the comments here are just good-natured ribbing that's just a joke and not really true? And you see no problem with acting one way when talking with your atheist friends and another way when Christians are around?
I will admit that creationists and other similar people are funny* and it's funny to mock them among atheists, but I'm not sure what you mean by ''worthy of being mocked''.
I see no problem with acting differently among atheists than christians in this case, because it would not be fun to knowingly insult people. I'll rather not give others an assholey picture of me.

*One of my favorites
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24-09-2010, 12:57 PM
 
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
I don't think mockery is hate. Ideas need to be challenged. Here on an atheist forum, most of us hold the ideal that religion is silly, for lack of a better word. But please note that we believe the idea is silly. I don't think we are going to go out there and fault individuals for their beliefs. Most of my friends are Christian. I don't go around calling them idiots (at least not for religious reasons Big Grin)

If an idea does not hold any evidence to support it, then of course it must be mocked. This would be normal for any idea in an intellectual circle. But religion seems to be excluded. I don't hate my enemy, and I don't consider religious people to be my enemy (except radicals). I despise the concept and notion of religion, not those who practice it. I don't wish to win over people by mocking them or yelling at them, I wish to do it with logic and reason. Here we may mock the fundamentalists because from even a moderate theists's perspective, they are completely whacko. I don't think there is any harm in poking fun at people's whose ideas are ridiculous and have no hope of questioning their beliefs.

Where we may start to get angry and offensive is in cases where religion has called violence and needless death. For example, Islamic terrorists, Ground Zero Mosque protesters, Koran burning pastors, stoning girls to death in Iran...

I will rebuke irrational behavior period. If it comes from an atheist, I will and have rebuked it. It is just due to the nature of our positions that atheists tend to act in a more rational and logical way.

I don't like when people tell me I'm going to hell because they are implying that I will be tortured for all eternity on the sole basis of the fact that I refuse to believe in things that have no evidence to support them, and in many cases, have evidence to the contrary. They do not take into account that I volunteer frequently at the food pantry to help the poor, an action I'm sure Jesus would support (if he was real), or that I live my life in respectful consideration of others.

And there is where I have a problem. What do you define as Christian teachings? I dislike when Christians cherry-pick things found in the Bible that society in general would consider good behavior because of the gradual, secular progression of human ideals, and call it religious morals. Why do you choose to ignore God's instructions in the Old Testament? They are definitely less than pleasant, even genocidal.

Kikko, I can't see your picture.
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24-09-2010, 01:57 PM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
(24-09-2010 07:21 AM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  So are you saying that you really don't think theists, Christians, and creationists are crazy fairy-tale believers

"Crazy" has a myriad of different definitions depending on context, but I believe that the "fairy-tale believers" bit is accurate.

Quote:worthy of being mocked

Everything is worthy of being mocked. Humor is one of the greatest things our species has going for it. Just watch a few episodes of South Park.

That said, it depends on the situation and the type of mockery being used. If it is the gentle joking that you get in a lot of situations, that's fine most of the time. Satire is also fine with me most of the time. Trolling - jokes meant to be offensive for no reason other than to inflame - is never acceptable in my book.

Quote:and that the comments here are just good-natured ribbing that's just a joke and not really true?

I don't see why "just a joke" and "not really true" have to be mutually exclusive.

Quote:And you see no problem with acting one way when talking with your atheist friends and another way when Christians are around?

No, not really. Do you sometimes make jokes about women and dumb blondes when hanging around with the guys that you wouldn't make in front of them? I know I do.

It just depends on the attitudes of the people involved.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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24-09-2010, 02:10 PM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
South Park is offensive to me. Not because it takes the mick out of stuff, but because the voice acting and animation fill my brain with anti-artistic fuck.

O-O

I would recommend The Boondocks or The Fast Show O-O

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25-09-2010, 02:49 AM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
Quote:South Park is offensive to me. Not because it takes the mick out of stuff, but because the voice acting and animation fill my brain with anti-artistic fuck.
I do'nt think, it's even supposed to be artistic. I like the old episodes alot better because they're more simple and cartman still has his cool voice.
Quote:Kikko, I can't see your picture.
Looks like it has been deleted or something.
[Image: crocoduck.jpg]
I still cant look at it without a small laughter...

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25-09-2010, 02:57 AM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
The crocaduck. Proof that some people haven't evolved as much as others.
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25-09-2010, 09:31 PM
RE: "Why are you being cynical?"
I agree with some of what was said before. It would have been more appropriate to say that you didn't want to, in a diplomatic way, or the forewarning that it was going to be a bit different that regular "Grace".
No sense in hurting people's feelings unnecessarily, especially if they didn't do anything out of the ordinary (obviously your family always says "grace" before the meal).
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