Why are you here?
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31-08-2012, 12:49 PM
Why are you here?
For those of you who were religious, what were some of the questions, realizations, etc... about your beliefs/religion that eventually lead to your non-belief?
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31-08-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: Why are you here?
Religion only worked for me when it was in a vacuum, uncontested by anything else.

As I grew older, I watched religion backpedal and attempt to redefine itself in light of modern knowledge, skeptical arguments, and the mess that is the bible itself. The coffin nail was when, after having no good answer for biblical atrocities and anti-moral behavior from a supposed moral guidebook, the evil of the old testament, the failures of a perfect god's creation, the absolute bizarre reasoning behind Jesus' crucifixion, and numerous other issues, I was left with "well, you just need to have faith."

I took their advice. I have faith that religion is leftover BS from a long, long time ago.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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31-08-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: Why are you here?
(31-08-2012 12:49 PM)Noelani Wrote:  For those of you who were religious, what were some of the questions, realizations, etc... about your beliefs/religion that eventually lead to your non-belief?

I never believed. I was about 8 or 9 years old when, in Sunday School, I thought "Do they actually believe this stuff?"

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-08-2012, 01:53 PM
RE: Why are you here?
It was weird for me, I always knew there was something wrong with religion, but instead of letting it go I tried to be the one who proved that it was all true, with sound logical arguments... Then I learned logic and I realized it was useless, I got in stand by mode for a few years until youtube started suggesting some atheist videos.
Then last year I went to a Cathedral, sat there, thought for a while, and left, it was like a good bye, very poetic and cheesy but it helped, specially with the guilt part. From there it was just accepting what I already knew, but there wasn't much of a change because I was already far from religion.

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31-08-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Why are you here?
When a child recognizes the bullshit that adults don't, then you have to wonder, just how much brainwashing has the adult had ?

Cults from around the world can show you step by step how brainwashing occurs.
Even people who have escaped cults and been de-programed, still have this yearning need to fall back into that "safe" place
where they were taken care of, sometimes raped or brutalized by their LOVING leader.

The mind is like putty in it's early years and if you get your hooks in deep enough, you can have them for life.
Religions know this. It's why they are anti-science. It's why they are anti-education, because the more you know about
the real world, the less you need a religion. The less you need to be spoon fed the lies that they tell you.

People who come here, do so out of a thirst for the truth, the truth about this world their religion never wanted them to know.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-08-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Why are you here?
Maybe I should add the reason that I would like to know... I have only been an official non-believer a few months shy of a year. While I do what I can to inform myself about the history of the Christian religion/Judaism, evolution, cosmology, etc.. I don't feel that I know enough to have a discussion with people in my family who are very religious. My parents know more about the bible than the average american christian, but only in terms of the characters, tribes, wars, that kind of thing. They are very devout and believe every word of it, no metaphors spin welcome. My in-laws actually work in the (Presbyterian) church. My father-in-law was a youth pastor and now is an editor for a christian magazine. My MIL leads the worship services at the church and FIL plays in the band, too. They also believe every word of the bible.
My in-laws are coming to visit us for the three day weekend and I am torn about what to do if religion comes up. I think some of my likes on facebook have unintentionally outed me. The last time I saw my MIL she was asking me if we still went to church and when I said no she asked why I think people my age don't go to church anymore, but posed it as an advice question for her church since they were losing some of their younger members. I really am dreading this conversation with them and I suppose that it will have to happen sometime. I am not a confrontational person so I am ill matched with my FIL who loves to debate. Add to the fact that I really don't know what he knows or what he has studied. Recently he mentioned something about the Epic of Gilgamesh being a flood story that predated the story of Noah... Not sure what to make of what he believes about it then since I know he does believe in Adam and Eve as being the first people on earth.
When we are at their house we are respectful and hold hands while they pray. The last time they stayed with us in our house they lead prayer before dinner. I would like to politely say no thanks and that prayer is not a part of our family routine. I actually wouldn't care all that much but my son, who just turned 4 gets confused about prayer. In the past I have just told him that Grandma and Grandpa are saying thank you to the god that they believe lives in the sky. I add a little lesson about how food actually gets from the ground, to the store, and on our table. So while this does provide a good teachable moment, I'm not super keen with having prayer while they are in our house. But I'm not sure if it's worth causing a big thing over it. I don't really think I can count on my husband to jump in and get in the middle of it either. My husband has always believed in god and Jesus but not in the literal bible stories. Of course, because I am an evil woman who doesn't know my place, I've lead him astray and now he doesn't believe. Two months ago I told my parents that I didn't believe and while I am glad not to be living a lie, it was also really hard to see how hurt they were and while I can't be for sure on the long lasting effects it has had on our relationship, things are a bit different now, and that's sad for me. After coming out to my parents I decided that unless my inlaws asked me point blank, I wouldn't tell them.
But perhaps that time is coming. I just don't know how to have this conversation with them. How do I get them to understand my lack of faith because I see the bible as written my man with many mistakes, in light of the info that we have I see the universe and humans as things that don't need a creator (and I definitely don't think that Yahweh did it). I don't want to argue with them, just get them thinking and trying to see where I am coming from. Hopefully they also decide that it's not worth getting into, after all I am not looking to go change their minds about what they believe.
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31-08-2012, 03:37 PM
RE: Why are you here?
I just went to Sunday school for the coloring. And whenever my mom would mention it, I would just play along with it because I was a kid. If she asked me if I believed, I would say yes. If she asked me to pray with her (we went through a lot back then) I would. But honestly, I had no interest or devotion to it at all. I grew up not worrying about religion. I had an interest in learning about it, but not an interest in worship. Faith was practically the last thing on my list of thoughts as each day passed. But man, the coloring was awesome though. Thumbsup
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31-08-2012, 07:13 PM
RE: Why are you here?
Youtube as well as learning that the "theory" of evolution is actually a well substantiated scientific theory, contrary to what my dad told me before biology class, confirmed my self doubts.
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31-08-2012, 07:31 PM
RE: Why are you here?
(31-08-2012 02:06 PM)Noelani Wrote:  Maybe I should add the reason that I would like to know... I have only been an official non-believer a few months shy of a year. While I do what I can to inform myself about the history of the Christian religion/Judaism, evolution, cosmology, etc.. I don't feel that I know enough to have a discussion with people in my family who are very religious. My parents know more about the bible than the average american christian, but only in terms of the characters, tribes, wars, that kind of thing. They are very devout and believe every word of it, no metaphors spin welcome. My in-laws actually work in the (Presbyterian) church. My father-in-law was a youth pastor and now is an editor for a christian magazine. My MIL leads the worship services at the church and FIL plays in the band, too. They also believe every word of the bible.
My in-laws are coming to visit us for the three day weekend and I am torn about what to do if religion comes up. I think some of my likes on facebook have unintentionally outed me. The last time I saw my MIL she was asking me if we still went to church and when I said no she asked why I think people my age don't go to church anymore, but posed it as an advice question for her church since they were losing some of their younger members. I really am dreading this conversation with them and I suppose that it will have to happen sometime. I am not a confrontational person so I am ill matched with my FIL who loves to debate. Add to the fact that I really don't know what he knows or what he has studied. Recently he mentioned something about the Epic of Gilgamesh being a flood story that predated the story of Noah... Not sure what to make of what he believes about it then since I know he does believe in Adam and Eve as being the first people on earth.
When we are at their house we are respectful and hold hands while they pray. The last time they stayed with us in our house they lead prayer before dinner. I would like to politely say no thanks and that prayer is not a part of our family routine. I actually wouldn't care all that much but my son, who just turned 4 gets confused about prayer. In the past I have just told him that Grandma and Grandpa are saying thank you to the god that they believe lives in the sky. I add a little lesson about how food actually gets from the ground, to the store, and on our table. So while this does provide a good teachable moment, I'm not super keen with having prayer while they are in our house. But I'm not sure if it's worth causing a big thing over it. I don't really think I can count on my husband to jump in and get in the middle of it either. My husband has always believed in god and Jesus but not in the literal bible stories. Of course, because I am an evil woman who doesn't know my place, I've lead him astray and now he doesn't believe. Two months ago I told my parents that I didn't believe and while I am glad not to be living a lie, it was also really hard to see how hurt they were and while I can't be for sure on the long lasting effects it has had on our relationship, things are a bit different now, and that's sad for me. After coming out to my parents I decided that unless my inlaws asked me point blank, I wouldn't tell them.
But perhaps that time is coming. I just don't know how to have this conversation with them. How do I get them to understand my lack of faith because I see the bible as written my man with many mistakes, in light of the info that we have I see the universe and humans as things that don't need a creator (and I definitely don't think that Yahweh did it). I don't want to argue with them, just get them thinking and trying to see where I am coming from. Hopefully they also decide that it's not worth getting into, after all I am not looking to go change their minds about what they believe.

I think you should rehearse to yourself a "script", and have it ready, in which you simply say, "well, we are not doing that just now, as it's confusing to "Johnny", (if they want to pray). Also rehearse another one, for any discussion, "oh, not right now, thanks, maybe we can get into that later", "not just now, thanks, maybe another time", "I'm tired/busy, and it's too complicated. Maybe tomorrow". You'll need to be somewhat assertive, but they will the message. After the second time they should stop. If they don't say "oh my goodness", (laugh), you don't really want to have THAT fight on such a lovely day". They cannot FORCE you to have a discussion you don't want to have. Just practice side-stepping it, until or unless you are ready. You owe them no explanations, and in your house you do things when you want, and are ready. Or maybe even say, "not in the house, please. Johnny might hear, and he's not ready for ( or likes to hear) hearing us argue".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-09-2012, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2012 01:39 PM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: Why are you here?
Why i am here on the thinking atheist?
Because i dont want to join the guess-group!
I left religion behind me, after a short, intensiv period of being a believer in my teen's age.
Let's say it in the words of Fox Mulder: I wanted to believe.
And i was a RC!
I actually take a break from that God-Thing after my mom died.
My relatives told me she is an angel in heaven now and she will never ever suffer pain anymore.
I was eleven years old and i wanted my mom back, this god should go to hell. What does he believe how he is?
And i became really angry about god.
I shouted out loud: What kind of an asshole you are? I hate you until the next eternity comes.
It took month to came clear on that event.
In that time i have made a promise to myself and a threat to god.
If i pass away and i go to heaven, it is better for him he is not at home!
7 plague, the flood? Ha fucker, keep an eye on that...Bang!!!
Later i realized that my revenge-plans had a minor flaw, caused by the fact that my opponent was going to get stronger with every thought i am have wasted on him.
I had to swallow the lesson, nothing stays the way it was, everything constantly change and i am part of it.
I came to the conclusion that life is a kind of quizshow with the goal to gain more and more knowledge. I am the quizmaster and also the one who must find the answers.
And a qiuzshow, with only one possible answer to all questions doesn't make sense.

And btw, i am also here to torture you all with my terrible english skills.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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