Why aren't children treated like Adults?
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20-03-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 01:41 PM)nach_in Wrote:  Every time I see a conversation like this I notice there's a gigantic semantic barrier between each side, those who say a spanking is needed talk about extremely misbehaved kids and not abusive spanks (lets be honest here, there are different degrees of physical punishments)
It's amazing though, don't you think, when you watch the Super Nanny.
Those kids are off the charts. Kicking and punching mum, throwing stuff, swearing, so abusive.

But then as you get to know the family dynamic you see that the children are a mirror of the parents. Once the parents settle down, and once some routines are introduced as well as the punishment of quiet contemplation, then everything settles down.
No spanking, no drugs, no shouting required.

I love the Super Nanny show, it certainly influences my parenting style.
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20-03-2012, 03:38 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 02:27 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Yes, it would humiliate them, teaching them humility and discipline, it's not teaching them to humiliate others, rather the kids who don't get spanked figure they can get away with everything and are the ones humiliating others. We often call these kids bullies. (example Nach_in's childhood story) if by violent tendency you mean righteous sensibility and self defense, isn't that a good thing?

I'm going to use the dogs my parents own, they had two dogs who never obeyed them. They were young and still weren't trained to go to the bathroom outside, a few swats on the rear end solved that problem pretty quickly. My parents never swatted the dogs and they hardly ever listen to them. I swatted the dogs, and they always listen to me.
about the first part in that post:
you obviously never learnt a better way to discipline a child but by hitting it. Yes, spanking equals hitting. Don't play it down by using a different word. You generalize like someone who has never really looked into the topic, otherwise you would know better.

about the second part in that post:
dogs obey each other because of appeareance, who can growl more dangerous and because they pinch each other a little, and I would never cross that stage. a pinch a growl that's it. But a spank? Nope, sorry. those dogs do not respect you, they listen because they are afraid to get hit again. Great result man...

Kinda seems like an atheistic Egor to me...

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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20-03-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 03:38 PM)Leela Wrote:  about the first part in that post:
you obviously never learnt a better way to discipline a child but by hitting it. Yes, spanking equals hitting. Don't play it down by using a different word. You generalize like someone who has never really looked into the topic, otherwise you would know better.

about the second part in that post:
dogs obey each other because of appeareance, who can growl more dangerous and because they pinch each other a little, and I would never cross that stage. a pinch a growl that's it. But a spank? Nope, sorry. those dogs do not respect you, they listen because they are afraid to get hit again. Great result man...

Kinda seems like an atheistic Egor to me...

@Stevil

It's a T.V. show, if you base your life off a T.V. show may god help you.

@Leela

Spanking is slapping it's ass. Hitting is punching someone. One involves an open palm the other involves a closed fist. Now the ass is usually has some fat to it so that softens the blow big time, it's not like your smacking them upside the head with all your strength. Spanking obviously doesn't hurt that much, just Google 'spanking ass' and look at all the adults love to get their asses spanked.

and about that dog thing, I'm not looking for their respect, I'm looking for their obedience. I'd be a real asshole if I was doing it for respect.
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20-03-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
out of the dictionary:

to hit:
To come into contact with forcefully; strike
To come into contact with something; collide
To attack
A collision or impact

to spank:
To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.
thesaurus on spank: smack, slap, beat

No big difference, sorry. You hit your kid with your hand or a flat object on the butt. Do you have an idea how close it is to take the belt or make your hand a fist? Don't tell me you wouldn't, you already said you would punch an adult. The line is easy to cross once you started spanking your kid with your hand or small object.
You are simply hiding behind a word.

Plus there is a difference of an adult giving informed conscent to another adult to spank them as to a child getting beaten by an adult who is simply stronger and taller and scary in that state of mind.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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20-03-2012, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2012 05:07 PM by Vipa.)
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 03:38 PM)Leela Wrote:  Kinda seems like an atheistic Egor to me...
*sign*

@Arctic Sage
Great way to show how little you understood about what I said. You obviously learned to humiliate children from your parents who did so and now you would do it to your children too... whatever not on topic thingy you wrote back to me there has no substance in defending your position.

As for Bullies. I myself was bullied (although that would be a strong word. it's utmost stupid to try to bully the one kid with the most credibility with the teachers and the principal).
And on the contrary I was the kid that had the completely punishment-free upbringing.
They on the other hand were the ones with the parents waiting at home with senseless high expectations (generates stress btw) and all kinds of punishment.
The problem is called conditional love - love they never can be sure of and never reach. They release their helplessness at home by suppressing others.
Believe me hell broke loose the second their parents were convinced about what their children did...
I would talk about the horrible stuff i did and wasn't punished for. But well... there's nothing, except feeling somewhat guilty about telling the school about the bullies.

@nach_in while I certainly like your writing way better than TAS's I still have to disagree. The magnitude of disobedience or stupid thing the kid does is irrelevant.


Stevil Wrote:I love the Super Nanny show, it certainly influences my parenting style.

I won't judge the english version of this show, but I bet it's not so different form the german version.
There are many examples of families who are depicted as completely out of control
- forced to act as such by the camera team (the contracts have quite harsh penalties if you don't play along)
e.g. the camera team tells the children to rage for the camera
or they wake the children in the middle of the night to ensure they won't have enough sleep (provides nice footage the next day)
- If the family acts too normal they'll simply write a manuscript to spice it up. (e.g. the husband has lost his job but everything's fine becomes: since the husband lost his job the whole family suffers from his depression and everythings in jeopardy)
- The Nanny is at the scene only for 60-120 minutes (opposed to the expected days or weeks). Just long enough for the camera team to show her greatness and success.

There's no fun in watching Super Nanny if the family acts normal. The Viewer has to at least feel superior to the shown family
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20-03-2012, 05:10 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 04:59 PM)Vipa Wrote:  - If the family acts too normal they'll simply write a manuscript to spice it up. (e.g. the husband has lost his job but everything's fine becomes: since the husband lost his job the whole family suffers from his depression and everythings in jeopardy)
- The Nanny is at the scene only for 60-120 minutes (opposed to the expected days or weeks). Just long enough for the camera team to show her greatness and success.

There's no fun in watching Super Nanny if the family acts normal. The Viewer has to at least feel superior to the shown family

Confused Damn. That's horrible.
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20-03-2012, 05:12 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2012 05:23 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 04:57 PM)Leela Wrote:  out of the dictionary:

to hit:
To come into contact with forcefully; strike
To come into contact with something; collide
To attack
A collision or impact

to spank:
To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.
thesaurus on spank: smack, slap, beat

No big difference, sorry. You hit your kid with your hand or a flat object on the butt. Do you have an idea how close it is to take the belt or make your hand a fist? Don't tell me you wouldn't, you already said you would punch an adult. The line is easy to cross once you started spanking your kid with your hand or small object.
You are simply hiding behind a word.

Plus there is a difference of an adult giving informed conscent to another adult to spank them as to a child getting beaten by an adult who is simply stronger and taller and scary in that state of mind.

People who have no self control shouldn't have children in the first place. I'm not going to fist children Leela. Seriously though, if people don't have self control they shouldn't have kids, there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.

@Vipa

Perhaps there wouldn't be any bullies at school if teachers used corporal punishment too?
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20-03-2012, 05:21 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 05:12 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  People who have no self control shouldn't have children in the first place. I'm not going to fist children Leela. Seriously though, if you don't have self control don't have kids, there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.

See this is what makes us not take you seriously (apart from a whole bunch of other things). What's with the personal attacks? What this tells me is that a point has been scored against you and because you can't answer it you try to make the scorer angry, so that it somehow invalidates what they said.

Also Jesus Christ do you come across as arrogant.
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20-03-2012, 05:22 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
Children aren't treated like adults because they are children...not adults.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-03-2012, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2012 05:42 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 05:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-03-2012 05:12 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  People who have no self control shouldn't have children in the first place. I'm not going to fist children Leela. Seriously though, if you don't have self control don't have kids, there is a fine line between discipline and abuse.

See this is what makes us not take you seriously (apart from a whole bunch of other things). What's with the personal attacks? What this tells me is that a point has been scored against you and because you can't answer it you try to make the scorer angry, so that it somehow invalidates what they said.

Also Jesus Christ do you come across as arrogant.

The fisting children part was supposed to be funny Sad perhaps I should reword it, I didn't mean it to be seen as an attack.

(20-03-2012 05:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Children aren't treated like adults because they are children...not adults.

Mother nature doesn't discriminate, why should we?
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