Why aren't children treated like Adults?
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21-03-2012, 02:53 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 09:43 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  When putting lives to the test Nature doesn't care for their age, why should we then discriminate based on age? Should their lives then not be put to the test as we would test men? So that when mother nature tests them they would be more ready for her fury.

Gotta call you on this. We *care* for our kids - discrimination based on age. It's one of the things which makes us successful as a species.

Kids are not adults, we don't treat them as such. Agreed, treating them as cretins will definitely do bad things for their upbringing, but that doesn't mean we should "test them as mother nature will test them". Do you expect mother nature to spank your adult ass?

Thought experiment: would you treat a baby like an adult? would you have a conversation with it? No? How about a 3 year old? 5? 7? You *can't* treat them like responsible, mature human beings because they *are not*.

As they get older the line between adult and child becomes less clear and eventually they *are* adults.
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21-03-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(21-03-2012 02:53 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta call you on this. We *care* for our kids - discrimination based on age. It's one of the things which makes us successful as a species.

Kids are not adults, we don't treat them as such. Agreed, treating them as cretins will definitely do bad things for their upbringing, but that doesn't mean we should "test them as mother nature will test them". Do you expect mother nature to spank your adult ass?

Thought experiment: would you treat a baby like an adult? would you have a conversation with it? No? How about a 3 year old? 5? 7? You *can't* treat them like responsible, mature human beings because they *are not*.

As they get older the line between adult and child becomes less clear and eventually they *are* adults.

I don't expect mother nature to spank my ass, I expect mother nature to kill me and maim me in many horrible ways, some of which could probably be prevented had I been disciplined. You know... things like don't play with guns etc etc. I WOULD certainly have a conversation with a baby, it's very important to talk to babies, that's ho they learn themselves to talk. It's quite a remarkable feat if you ask me, born with nothing and in 2 years they have developed the ability to communicate. Tell me that's not impressive. As they get older the conversations become more detailed, more thoughtful. They are as you treat them morondog, if you treat them as immature and irresponsible human beings, that's how they're going to act.

in the beginning though they aren't mature or responsible, nor are they immature or irresponsible. Their status is unknown, until you treat them the way you will. Treat them like mature and responsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way, treat them as immature and irresponsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way.
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21-03-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
In what universe does spanking someone get classed as treating them as mature and responsible.

There is an interesting study currently going on in new york, the data so far seems to suggest that babies may not be quite the blank canvasses we think they are. They are not yet concluded though, but it will be interesting when the results are finally published.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-03-2012, 07:57 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(21-03-2012 05:36 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  in the beginning though they aren't mature or responsible, nor are they immature or irresponsible. Their status is unknown, until you treat them the way you will. Treat them like mature and responsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way, treat them as immature and irresponsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way.

^^ You said it mate Wink
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21-03-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(21-03-2012 07:47 AM)Eternal Wrote:  In what universe does spanking someone get classed as treating them as mature and responsible.

There is an interesting study currently going on in new york, the data so far seems to suggest that babies may not be quite the blank canvasses we think they are. They are not yet concluded though, but it will be interesting when the results are finally published.

in this one, but for adults it's called jail Tongue

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21-03-2012, 08:36 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
Quote:in the beginning though they aren't mature or responsible, nor are they immature or irresponsible. Their status is unknown, until you treat them the way you will. Treat them like mature and responsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way, treat them as immature and irresponsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way

Holy cow, I agree with something you said!

Just the problem with it is HOW you show them what you expect from them.

Beatings have no place in showing kids what you expect of them. More often than not they will do the "wrong thing" because they don't yet know what the right thing is.

You are killing analytical thinking in the bud with this. The universe has just become a place for them where they cannot avoid or anticipate physical pain administered by the one they trust most, without rhyme or reason since they do not yet understand the reason.

What a self defeating, stupid, moronic way to learn.

It prepares them for stupid, moronic things like religion being hammered into them, and that is exactly what beating children has been based on for centuries and centuries - freaking religion.

If you want a smart, human being rather than a sheeple, you give them the tools to figure things out. You don't subjugate them and teach them to blindly follow authority. Emphasis on blindly - the kid has no idea what s/he is being hurt for.

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21-03-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
I'll insist on this, why do those who are agains this think that spanking a kid one or two times at most in their life is beating them every single day, betraying their trust and destroying all their possibilities of rational thinking in the world? you're starting to sound like a preacher saying the world will end if gay marriage is approved Confused

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21-03-2012, 09:02 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
Put it this way...

Is it gonna hurt your kid if you give it a whack? Not *physically*. But I know I sure as hell learned a lot about hate and anger. My parents were not abusive - I got it when I *needed* it, according to them, it was never brutal - mostly just humiliating - and it did no lasting harm. I happened to not respond at all to that kind of treatment. I will not do that to a kid of mine.
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21-03-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(21-03-2012 08:47 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'll insist on this, why do those who are agains this think that spanking a kid one or two times at most in their life is beating them every single day, betraying their trust and destroying all their possibilities of rational thinking in the world? you're starting to sound like a preacher saying the world will end if gay marriage is approved Confused

I am against making spanking the habit. I would rather give my kid a slight hit on the fingers than have it touch the hot oven. Just got weigh it. I am not destroying the kid's soul by that.
But if I treat every misbehaviour exactly the same > by hitting it - then my child will not know what exactly was done wrong and why it was wrong. It will learn from fear of getting hit, not from understanding the wrongs. But understanding the wrongs is much more important because then it can adapt from situation to situation.

Example:
I am in a restaurant with the family. My kid picks the nose.
Wouldn't it be stupid to spank it or hit the hand or face of the kid?
Depending on age, let's say it's 5 yrs. I would take the kids hand out of the nose, give it a tissue, tell it to blow the nose, and tell it that it looks bad and makes the fingers dirty. And if I taught my kid that we are eating with clean hands in advance (for obvious reasons) it will understand, make the connection and understand that everything that makes the fingers dirty is not ok to do while eating. Plus kids hate to look bad and to know that this does look bad will get them embarrassed enough to not do it again.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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21-03-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
I don't think spanking once or twice, or even a little more, is abusing your child like 'The Child Called It' (book), at all. BUT there isn't any positive outcome from it. Zero to negative. It is not beneficial, it is primal. Boundaries and positive reinforcement go MUCH further. My daughter knows she shouldn't lie to me because it breaks my trust and the next time she isn't allowed the privilege of whatever it was she broke the trust on. Not because she might get a spanking. (???) Just doesn't seem like a natural or logical consequence of her choices. When I grew up my biggest reason for not disobeying my parents was to not disappoint them. That felt horrible! My father spanked me a couple times. Each time he did this I just wanted to get back at him somehow, (a couple times I did- ripped his newspaper and threw it in the garbage, lol), because I felt violated (again, not like an abused child, but still those feelings were there). That is not a constructive feeling, it's demeaning, disrespectful and harmful).

I know many respected, mature productive individuals who were never spanked as children. They turned out just fine AND have excellent relationships with their parents. I would love to have a mutually respected relationship with my daughters, including honesty, boundaries and responsibility.
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