Why aren't children treated like Adults?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-03-2012, 10:29 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 01:06 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Withholding information to me is the equivalent of lying, treating others differently than you do others is a form of prejudice. If kids were treated like an adult I think they'd grow up much quicker, more mature, and most importantly more intelligent.

And yet I hear cry baby wanna be mothers who haven't even developed the god damned responsibility to spank their children? Are you fucking shitting me? Do you know why we spank children? To teach them a serious lesson, if they're caught stealing when they grow up, it'll be more than 'just sit in the corner' because the corner they'll be sitting in will be in jail. If they murder somebody well hell that's not t bad because they're gonna get off scout free anyways with this gay little legal system that lawyers love to use as lubricant to fuck others in the ass and then steal their money.

But that's besides the point, people need to have a little bit of responsibility in this world, it would go a LOOONG ways.

Your thoughts?
The problem with the youth today has nothing to do with spanking, its that there are no parents. Mom and Dad both work at least 1 job, and are still under a mountain of debt.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-03-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
All this information is quite grand and all, but too many variables are left out of the equation. Sure it's wonderful if you never have to spank a child but sometimes it becomes necessary. If it is just you and your child and not a bombardment of misinformation from all fronts then yes this is a perfect situation and it works out great.

TAS I see your points, unfortunately you were losing the battle from the beginning because the responses you received were immediately attacking you and their complete disrespect was uncalled for. You should have disengaged this conversation upon the first biased insult. Not because you were wrong but because they closed their minds to your communication.

The simple answer is, they don't get a fuckin say in how you raise your child as long as it isn't abuse. Each child is different, I see children raised various ways and they all turn out different no matter if they were raised the same way or not. Good kids come from bad situations and bad kids come from good situations and obviously the other way around. This isn't an exact science nor is it perfect. I have three kids and they are doing just fine. Rarely did I spank but when I did it wasn't the beatings I got. I turned out just fine despite the beatings. Never gone to jail, never done illegal drugs, never skipped school, never got suspended. It's completely situational. The bombardment of ideas aren't 100% full proof and mostly biased to each idividual's experience.

Idiot: : a foolish or stupid person
— idiot adjective
See Republican Candidates.

Keeping realism alive, one honest offensive comment at a time!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Clint Barnett's post
31-03-2012, 07:41 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2012 07:48 PM by Vipa.)
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(31-03-2012 03:56 PM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  TAS I see your points, unfortunately you were losing the battle from the beginning because the responses you received were immediately attacking you and their complete disrespect was uncalled for. You should have disengaged this conversation upon the first biased insult. Not because you were wrong but because they closed their minds to your communication.

No our critique has nothing to do with our dislike for his attitude. Just look at our responses towards nach_in - they were more polite but still in disagreement.

Yes we don't get a say. But while I don't know US law at least in my country parents will be prosecuted for hitting their children. It doesn't matter who you hit, it's simply illegal. The very thought, that something no adult has to bear unpursued by law, a kid has to, even inflicted by its own parents, is ridiculous

Clint Barnett Wrote:All this information is quite grand and all, but too many variables are left out of the equation. Sure it's wonderful if you never have to spank a child but sometimes it becomes necessary. If it is just you and your child and not a bombardment of misinformation from all fronts then yes this is a perfect situation and it works out great.
No it does not become necessary. I have at least 3 friends (from these I know for sure) who never got spanked and the same goes for my sister and me (,my parents and my sis' child). I'd say we (the people listed in the sentence before) experienced something like unconditional love on top.
I can assure you neither they nor me were one of these perfectly well behaved kids. There were situations others would've been spanked for. Imo it is a sign of (mental) strength if you don't hit your children.

Whatever these "misinformations from all fronts" are, either we didn't have them or what is more probable it doesn't matter whether this bombardment happens and it's all about yourself...

Today we are like everybody else, but with a little unseen difference i'd say. Many people have a deep inner fear. I.e. not living up to expectations, failing in their lives in any way (losing the job), fear of the future, or the feeling that nothing one does is ever good enough. I personally can't see any of this in these friends or my sister (and her child). It's like a basic trust in life which we've never lost. - certainly the occurences (i.e. losing a job) still happen, but the mental pressure even during them seems to be on a different scale.
Now of course i wouldn't dare to say this is only possible for people who've never been spanked by their parents, that would be presumptuous, but it certainly did no harm to maintaining this little extra quality of life.


Yuk, my text reads like some gooey thing straight out of a schmaltzy book. Chase

(And at this point it's almost needless to say that I think you are absolutely correct about being biased by means of personal experience ^^)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-04-2012, 08:27 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
[font="Verdana"]May I tell you something? Spanking children
doesn't actually work as a means of educating them. It is far better to explain
to your child why not to do something. Children do have a sense of reason and
will conform to your ideals naturally. Children crave your attention and your
approval. Telling them how disappointed you are with their behavior is
equivalent to an adult being humiliated in front of an audience. Your children
will learn and obey you so long as you remain an authority figure.
Authoritative is a vert good parenting style. Authoritarian is not Authoritative.
[/font]

(20-03-2012 01:06 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Withholding information to me is the equivalent of lying, treating others differently than you do others is a form of prejudice. If kids were treated like an adult I think they'd grow up much quicker, more mature, and most importantly more intelligent.

And yet I hear cry baby wanna be mothers who haven't even developed the god damned responsibility to spank their children? Are you fucking shitting me? Do you know why we spank children? To teach them a serious lesson, if they're caught stealing when they grow up, it'll be more than 'just sit in the corner' because the corner they'll be sitting in will be in jail. If they murder somebody well hell that's not t bad because they're gonna get off scout free anyways with this gay little legal system that lawyers love to use as lubricant to fuck others in the ass and then steal their money.

But that's besides the point, people need to have a little bit of responsibility in this world, it would go a LOOONG ways.

Your thoughts?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-04-2012, 11:42 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(06-04-2012 08:27 AM)Adamisk Wrote:  May I tell you something? Spanking children
doesn't actually work as a means of educating them. It is far better to explain
to your child why not to do something. Children do have a sense of reason and
will conform to your ideals naturally. Children crave your attention and your
approval. Telling them how disappointed you are with their behavior is
equivalent to an adult being humiliated in front of an audience. Your children
will learn and obey you so long as you remain an authority figure.
Authoritative is a vert good parenting style. Authoritarian is not Authoritative.

(20-03-2012 01:06 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Withholding information to me is the equivalent of lying, treating others differently than you do others is a form of prejudice. If kids were treated like an adult I think they'd grow up much quicker, more mature, and most importantly more intelligent.

And yet I hear cry baby wanna be mothers who haven't even developed the god damned responsibility to spank their children? Are you fucking shitting me? Do you know why we spank children? To teach them a serious lesson, if they're caught stealing when they grow up, it'll be more than 'just sit in the corner' because the corner they'll be sitting in will be in jail. If they murder somebody well hell that's not t bad because they're gonna get off scout free anyways with this gay little legal system that lawyers love to use as lubricant to fuck others in the ass and then steal their money.

But that's besides the point, people need to have a little bit of responsibility in this world, it would go a LOOONG ways.

Your thoughts?
That's like saying touching an extremely hot object won't teach you not to touch it again. It teaches very much so. This is a never ending discussion and what it boils down to is opinion not facts.

Idiot: : a foolish or stupid person
— idiot adjective
See Republican Candidates.

Keeping realism alive, one honest offensive comment at a time!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Clint Barnett's post
10-04-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
This is a very interesting topic and reminds me from something I previously wrote:


There are three things that I think should not be done in parenting as they could be detrimental to the child. One should not criticize their child, yell at their child, or hit their child. I mean really a child, though smaller and less knowledgeable than the rest of us is just another human being. One must only ask the following questions to understand why I think these strategies should not be used with a child: Do I like being criticized? Do I like being yelled at? Do I like being hit? How do I respond when someone does this to me? Do I want to listen to what someone has to say if they treat me in this manner? Kids will make mistakes, of course they will. They don’t just know what we consider to be best for them, or better yet what they will ultimately consider to be best. They must learn. They must learn to think and reason and to make choices that are beneficial to their well-being. Kids don’t try to make their parents angry, that is unless they feel bad about the way their parents have treated them and want to return the favor. But for the most part they don’t want to upset them, they want to love them if they are given love, they just don’t always make the smartest choices because they don’t know any better. They do what they want and are often unaware of the consequences. Some may say my child knows better, I taught them right and wrong and sure that child may be aware of what the parent said but that doesn’t mean their logic makes sense to the child. The child may not see it the same way as the parent, even if they are aware of their parent’s opinion. They may see a decision as the right decision because they want to do it even though they know their parent said it was wrong. When a situation like this occurs, yelling at the child will not help. The child already feels bad that the parent is not happy with what they’ve done. Yelling at the child will only make them feel worse. This is not conducive to the child learning or wanting to make positive decisions. The child needs an explanation and they may not always understand so the more reasoning that can be given, the better. Again communication is the key. They need to speak too. Their thoughts must be heard and questions must be answered. They need to come to the best conclusion on their own, not simply be told what to think and do and all the while they need to be showered with love and smiles so they feel good rather than bad. This builds trust and puts them in a mindset of wanting to listen and learn.
It seems rather odd to me that parenting was not a required course in high school. The vast majority of people become parents at some point in their life and many say it is the best part of their life, yet basic parenting skills are not a part of our education system. A course like this wouldn’t need to tell people what to teach their children but rather simply address parenting strategies that have been shown to be effective, leaving the idea of how to raise their children to the individuals while giving them tools to more effectively do so. It could also address the difficulties of entering into parenthood too soon. How many issues that people deal with in childhood result from poor parenting and how many of these issues carry over into adulthood and become serious problems in society? Many of these issues too are not caused by parents trying to screw their children up. No, of course not, quite the contrary, they are trying to do what’s best, only they are unaware or misinformed about the most effective ways to parent. Much of the time this probably results from how they were parented and they reason that I turned out okay so my child will too if I use the same strategy. But we must remember that all children are individuals just like us, making their own decisions and choosing to react to situations in their own way. Some may react worse to negative stimuli such as yelling, criticizing, and hitting, than others would. Why do things that may put children in a negative mindset that could lead to anger, sadness, resentment, hatred, and a variety of mental disorders and perhaps even criminal behavior and violence later in life?

I do of course think it is the place of the parent to determine what strategy to use when raising their child, but I think it's important that we not overlook the fact that children are just as human as adults and likely to respond poorly to negative stimuli just as adults are. I worked for a year as a counselor for a population of mentally retarded individuals diagnosed with at least two additional mental disorders(bipolar, schizoaffective, reactive attachment, intermittent explosive, etc.) and I found that by treating them as kindly and with as much understanding as possible they were far more likely to listen to me and consider my thoughts than they were for the other counselors who focused on discipline and punishment.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheStapleMaster's post
16-04-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(21-03-2012 05:36 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(21-03-2012 02:53 AM)morondog Wrote:  Gotta call you on this. We *care* for our kids - discrimination based on age. It's one of the things which makes us successful as a species.

Kids are not adults, we don't treat them as such. Agreed, treating them as cretins will definitely do bad things for their upbringing, but that doesn't mean we should "test them as mother nature will test them". Do you expect mother nature to spank your adult ass?

Thought experiment: would you treat a baby like an adult? would you have a conversation with it? No? How about a 3 year old? 5? 7? You *can't* treat them like responsible, mature human beings because they *are not*.

As they get older the line between adult and child becomes less clear and eventually they *are* adults.

I don't expect mother nature to spank my ass, I expect mother nature to kill me and maim me in many horrible ways, some of which could probably be prevented had I been disciplined. You know... things like don't play with guns etc etc. I WOULD certainly have a conversation with a baby, it's very important to talk to babies, that's ho they learn themselves to talk. It's quite a remarkable feat if you ask me, born with nothing and in 2 years they have developed the ability to communicate. Tell me that's not impressive. As they get older the conversations become more detailed, more thoughtful. They are as you treat them morondog, if you treat them as immature and irresponsible human beings, that's how they're going to act.

in the beginning though they aren't mature or responsible, nor are they immature or irresponsible. Their status is unknown, until you treat them the way you will. Treat them like mature and responsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way, treat them as immature and irresponsible beings and show that is what you expect of them, and they will act that way.
That is not at all how they will act. Have you ever interacted with any children?

[Image: 4833fa13.jpg]
Poonjab
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(06-04-2012 11:42 AM)Clint Barnett Wrote:  
(06-04-2012 08:27 AM)Adamisk Wrote:  May I tell you something? Spanking children
doesn't actually work as a means of educating them. It is far better to explain
to your child why not to do something. Children do have a sense of reason and
will conform to your ideals naturally. Children crave your attention and your
approval. Telling them how disappointed you are with their behavior is
equivalent to an adult being humiliated in front of an audience. Your children
will learn and obey you so long as you remain an authority figure.
Authoritative is a vert good parenting style. Authoritarian is not Authoritative.
That's like saying touching an extremely hot object won't teach you not to touch it again. It teaches very much so. This is a never ending discussion and what it boils down to is opinion not facts.
How can you compare the physical pain of touching a hot object with spanking a child? Do you really want your child to experience pain for actions they cannot help doing??? IT'S A FACT THAT CHILDREN DO NOT KNOW ANY BETTER. They aren't adults thus, they do not have adult level reasoning skills.

To humor your silly analogy... pay close attention to how a child acts around a hot object after they have experienced the pain of touching it previously. Notice how they are AFRAID of it. Scratch that, watch how they act around that object even if it's not hot.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW YOUR CHILD WILL REACT TO YOU SPANKING THEM. You're completely right. What you do with your own child is none of my god damn business as long as it doesn't cause significant harm. However, I'll tell you this much... I WILL NOT RAISE MY CHILD TO FEAR ME.

There are countless studies showing how ineffective negative reinforcement is in both humans AND animals. Big shocker there seeing as how we are animals as well. But no, none of this means that it will be the case 100% of the time. Of course there are exceptions. However, the studies stand to show that the MAJORITY of the time they do not work.

From my personal experience, people who have told me that they were regularly spanked by their parents seem to have either a distant or close yet distant relationship with them. By the latter I mean they are buddy buddy, but next to no affection exists. I'm not going to be just my children's buddy... I'm going to be a loving father. Someone they don't have to fear. Someone they can openly talk to and approach without hesitation.

So with that said, go ahead... spank your children. Show them that tough boot camp love. Rejoice in how many points you gain on your fucking man card from doing so. Just don't scratch your head when you find out that your children have hidden many significant secrets from you out of fear.

But yea, there is that off-chance that spanking will work like it did for some.

Just to be fair though, the extreme opposite has a negative effect as well. Be too loose on your children and it's equally bad.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like NoahsFarce's post
17-04-2012, 02:51 PM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
How is spanking a child and teaching them to fear you any different from the Old Testament God?

[Image: 4833fa13.jpg]
Poonjab
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-08-2012, 02:20 AM
RE: Why aren't children treated like Adults?
(20-03-2012 04:02 AM)Eternal Wrote:  Children are learning all the time. They learn more by example than they do your words. Do you not think that spanking your child could teach them that a violent reaction to a wrong is the correct course of action. I personally have only ever got physical with my children in any way when they have done so with me e.g. when the baby biting stage is going on, if my son or daughter bit me, I would bite them back (not too hard of course) because it is important that they learn to expect their behaviour to receive such behaviour in return.

You say why can't we treat them like adults then go on a rant about spanking. How many adults would you spank to make a point, do you not see the contradiction here? I do believe that boundaries and discipline are important though, I just believe there are better ways to achieve better results.

I always took the tac of complete honesty with my children, and in the interests of teaching by example, if they ever had questions I would not just answer them but we would either work out the answer through discussion or we would look into it. I noticed early on that this seemed to instil a good attitude towards problem solving and make them more reflective when faced with problems or adversity. How you go about this is of course dictated by the childs age and ability at the time.

I think it also worth noting that childhood is the only time in your life when life can be fairly simple, without the stresses that follow in later life. It is important to let them enjoy this time. Just because a child is mature doesn't mean they shouldn't let their hair down and go silly a bit. Growing up quickly is not always desirable, growing up with a good attitude and outlook is. The best way to do this is to provide a balanced and loving home, be the best role model you can be because in the early days your actions are your childs main point of reference for how to act later in life.

I also note by your tone that you clearly know that your stance is the correct one, this leads me to point out that it is important to also instil a bit of humility and open mindedness into your children. Like above with the biting example, you need to learn that how you interact will receive a similar reaction. Your opening statement reduces anyone that disagree's with you to an irresponsible cry baby. Amongst those irresponsible cry babies are some of the worlds leading child psychologists, psychiatrists and child behaviour specialists. But as we know already, you of course know better. If you decide that you don't then you are leaving yourself very little room for manoeuvre without looking like an idiot.

I agree about people taking responsibility for their actions, it would go a long way. I think to many people have children these days without fully considering the consequences. There are many that are too flippant about their responsibilities as a parent also.

Just as a footnote whilst we are on the subject of the correct way to raise kids. Please re-read your opening post as a third party who may hold different views to yourself. If you can do this you may get an insight into why usually I believe you come across as arrogant and immature.

While I agree with you about violence teaching violence, I disagree with you as well. If someone threatens me, I have the attitude of put up or shut up. If you say give me your money or I'll beat you up. I might say bring it on bitch. If you pull a gun however, you have something to show you can back it up. If I keep telling a child to go sit in the corner, but never ever lay hands on them, they eventually develop the attitude of "Yeah, or else what?". If on my third demand to go sit in the corner, I provide a slight slap on the bottom (especially if they are still in diapers), it won't hurt or do any damage at all. All that needs to happen is pain must simply be implied to get the point across. I remember being little. It was quite effective with no actual harm done.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: