Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
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02-09-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
I'm gonna start making it a personal policy not to respond to noobs who come here with Deepity until they have interacted in a few posts of ours, first. I strongly suspect that theists come here just to "poke" us with those, a kind of "Scored Points for Jesus Today!" game.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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02-09-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 10:40 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Belief in god(s) is a matter of faith. Lack of evidence is not a hindrance to faith.

Absolutely true!

In fact, in some circles (I've encountered this with some Catholics in particular) faith is considered better and more pure when there is no evidence. If there was evidence, it would not be faith, it would just be reasoning. So belief that actually contradicts the evidence is the best kind of faith.

It says something about religion, when refusing to accept evidence and logic is regarded as a virtue.

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nosotros por lágrimas."
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02-09-2015, 12:19 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
Daniel - I agree that morons might say that, but in general, in my experience with educated theists, their view is closer to this:

"That which has proof needs no faith because I can just believe what is proved, and these are the things I know; faith is for the things I hope are true but have no evidence for, and these are the things I believe."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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02-09-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
Ahh, our weekly belief vs knowledge thread. I was wondering when one was going to be posted.

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02-09-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
KC - now that you're here... would you say that's a fairer representation of the position of the educated theist? If I need to correct something, I do try to be accurate/respectful.

Edit to Add: I think it sounds better, slightly rephrased for poetic effect, thus:

"That which has proof needs no faith because I can just believe it as it has been proved, and these are the things I know; faith is for the things I hope prove to be true but for which I have no evidence, and these are the things I believe."

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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02-09-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 12:55 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  KC - now that you're here... would you say that's a fairer representation of the position of the educated theist? If I need to correct something, I do try to be accurate/respectful.

Edit to Add: I think it sounds better, slightly rephrased for poetic effect, thus:

"That which has proof needs no faith because I can just believe it as it has been proved, and these are the things I know; faith is for the things I hope prove to be true but for which I have no evidence, and these are the things I believe."

Yep. If I read that correctly, that sums it up.

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02-09-2015, 03:24 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 12:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  ... educated theists ...

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Anyway, while moderate (i.e. not completely bat-shit crazy) Christians, might put it as you have, there is a definite thread in Christianity which regards faith as being most worthy when it defies the evidence.

Mark Twain, speaking through Huckleberry Finn, said that faith is believing what you know ain't so. And while "belief in the absence of evidence" may be a kinder way of phrasing it, Huckleberry's version is telling it like it is.

I see no reason to pull punches when facing an institution that provided the only justification for slavery, for segregation, for the ruthless bullying of queer kids, in fact for pretty much every kind of ruthless bigotry since the Trinitarians began murdering every other flavor of Christians for holding "wrong" beliefs.

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02-09-2015, 05:17 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 03:24 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 12:19 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  ... educated theists ...

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Wow, you are first person, especially on this forum, to have ever made that joke.

Well done. Two thumbs up. A++++++++ would buy from again. ThumbsupThumbsup

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02-09-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 05:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 03:24 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  Isn't that an oxymoron?

Wow, you are first person, especially on this forum, to have ever made that joke.

Well done. Two thumbs up. A++++++++ would buy from again. ThumbsupThumbsup

Outliers cannot speak for the group. Tongue

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02-09-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 05:24 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 05:17 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wow, you are first person, especially on this forum, to have ever made that joke.

Well done. Two thumbs up. A++++++++ would buy from again. ThumbsupThumbsup

Outliers cannot speak for the group. Tongue

Exception that proves the rule?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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