Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
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02-09-2015, 05:30 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
I never believed. God is nothing more than a human idea.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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02-09-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(02-09-2015 12:17 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 10:40 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Belief in god(s) is a matter of faith. Lack of evidence is not a hindrance to faith.

Absolutely true!

In fact, in some circles (I've encountered this with some Catholics in particular) faith is considered better and more pure when there is no evidence. If there was evidence, it would not be faith, it would just be reasoning. So belief that actually contradicts the evidence is the best kind of faith.

It says something about religion, when refusing to accept evidence and logic is regarded as a virtue.

Indeed, over my many years on atheist-related forums, blogs, and chats, a point I've often made to theists who claim to have "proof" of their deity is that seeking such proof appears to me to be evidence of a lack of faith.
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03-09-2015, 12:03 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
Back in Louisiana, I had quite a few interesting discussions with a Catholic Monsignor who had three PhDs, one of which was in Philosophy (the hardest to attain) from an Ivy League school (I forget which... Brown, I think), and a BSc from West Point. That man taught me half of what I know about non-fundamentalist theology and Biblical scholarship, back when I had done most of the research on my own and didn't realize that not every Christian I met would be uneducated about their own stuff. He was trying to convert me back to Christianity, of course, but the discussions did me a lot of good, in terms of figuring out what I really thought about some of the harder historical and theological questions, and though we had quite a few fierce exchanges, we parted on good terms.

From then on, despite the idiocy of my Southern Baptist upbringing, I resolved not to automatically equate "Christian" with "uneducated", because some of them are quite bright, if self-blinded, in my opinion. Of course, they think the same of me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-09-2015, 12:10 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(03-09-2015 12:03 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Back in Louisiana, I had quite a few interesting discussions with a Catholic Monsignor who had three PhDs, one of which was in Philosophy (the hardest to attain) from an Ivy League school (I forget which... Brown, I think), and a BSc from West Point. That man taught me half of what I know about non-fundamentalist theology and Biblical scholarship, back when I had done most of the research on my own and didn't realize that not every Christian I met would be uneducated about their own stuff. He was trying to convert me back to Christianity, of course, but the discussions did me a lot of good, in terms of figuring out what I really thought about some of the harder historical and theological questions, and though we had quite a few fierce exchanges, we parted on good terms.

From then on, despite the idiocy of my Southern Baptist upbringing, I resolved not to automatically equate "Christian" with "uneducated", because some of them are quite bright, if self-blinded, in my opinion. Of course, they think the same of me.

There are many educated, sophisticated intelligent religiously-minded people out there. Even intelligent people can be brainwashed and/or have a desire to believe. My pastor had two non-theological degrees in addition to his degree in theology. One of his degrees was in history. I always thought that was ironic considering many secular scholarly books provide cultural and historical reasons for why early Biblical people believed what they did. But I think it is very easy to wear blinders and only see what you want to see if one is so inclined.
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03-09-2015, 12:36 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
I know people get all into how language evolves over time, and how yesterday's meaning may not define today's word, however, gnosis is still "secret knowledge" (heck, the spell checker wants to capitalize that shit), which would be an absurd thing for an atheist to possess. I personally revel in absurdity, but the more rational thinker may wish to investigate ignosticism.

(02-09-2015 11:51 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm gonna start making it a personal policy not to respond to noobs who come here with Deepity until they have interacted in a few posts of ours, first. I strongly suspect that theists come here just to "poke" us with those, a kind of "Scored Points for Jesus Today!" game.

Yeppers. There's a fair amount of drive-by Deepity.

(02-09-2015 09:49 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(02-09-2015 12:17 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  Absolutely true!

In fact, in some circles (I've encountered this with some Catholics in particular) faith is considered better and more pure when there is no evidence. If there was evidence, it would not be faith, it would just be reasoning. So belief that actually contradicts the evidence is the best kind of faith.

It says something about religion, when refusing to accept evidence and logic is regarded as a virtue.

Indeed, over my many years on atheist-related forums, blogs, and chats, a point I've often made to theists who claim to have "proof" of their deity is that seeking such proof appears to me to be evidence of a lack of faith.

Technically "proof" is a protocol violation.

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03-09-2015, 12:38 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
Hey Thump! HoC just came up with a great name for your next album: "Drive-By Deepity". Big Grin

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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03-09-2015, 02:07 AM
RE: Why being gnostic atheist makes more sense.
(03-09-2015 12:03 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Back in Louisiana, I had quite a few interesting discussions with a Catholic Monsignor who had three PhDs, one of which was in Philosophy (the hardest to attain) from an Ivy League school (I forget which... Brown, I think), and a BSc from West Point. That man taught me half of what I know about non-fundamentalist theology and Biblical scholarship, back when I had done most of the research on my own and didn't realize that not every Christian I met would be uneducated about their own stuff. He was trying to convert me back to Christianity, of course, but the discussions did me a lot of good, in terms of figuring out what I really thought about some of the harder historical and theological questions, and though we had quite a few fierce exchanges, we parted on good terms.

From then on, despite the idiocy of my Southern Baptist upbringing, I resolved not to automatically equate "Christian" with "uneducated", because some of them are quite bright, if self-blinded, in my opinion. Of course, they think the same of me.

The best prof I had in college was my Phi101 prof, Dr Hughes, a Franciscan monk who'd returned to the real world. The only reason I passed his class, and he told me this in his office afterwards, was that on his final, (three essay questions, answer the two you want to) my answer to one question was three words, "I don't know".

He taught me a hell of a lot.
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