Why believing God exists is irrelevant
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23-12-2013, 07:33 AM
Why believing God exists is irrelevant
The following is a part of the book I am writing. I am curious to see if it makes any sense to people here. I know that we have abundance of theists and atheists on the forums. I want to inspire people to think in a new way.

Quote:Why believing God exists is irrelevant

The word "God" is rather meaningless. People may ask someone if they believe in God, but they assume that the person has the same definition of God that they do. Many people who do believe there is a God have different opinions on exactly what defines him. A definition must be given before someone can even think about it. Atheists can disagree on exactly what it is that they don't believe in.

Does God depend on his creation to believe that he exists? God can exist, whether or not you believe or approve of it. It is not as though belief in something makes it true. A lack of belief doesn't make it false. I think most likely people believe things based on all the evidence of their own experiences. If you don't believe in God, it is not really the job of any human to try to convince you that he exists because obviously, they don't think he can show himself to you if he wanted to. If you do believe in God, then maybe you have a reason for it. No one should try to force you to give up your faith, knowledge, or experiences that led to them.

If we were created by God, he obviously gave us brains. He couldn't expect us to just ignore our thoughts. Maybe God wants us to think for ourselves. What harm can come from asking questions, reading books, or talking to others about what they believe? Why would God be angry at people for trying to learn?

The next time someone asks me if I believe in God, I will first ask them what God is. I think that it only makes sense to define what we are talking about first. Imagine if person 1 were to ask person 2 if they believed in Chandler Klebs. Person 1 would probably ask for a definition. Person 2 could say "A crazy man who writes about subjects he knows nothing about". Person 1 could say, "That doesn't make any sense! I don't believe in Chandler Klebs!". Person 1 would be correct but person 2 is also correct in that it doesn't make sense. I wouldn't blame them for saying that the definition makes no sense. But for them to assume that I don't exist would be false. But they can live their lives without knowing about me. To me, whether someone believes I exist is irrelevant to what I am doing. I think that just maybe God is the same way. I could be wrong but that is irrelevant! Make up your own mind.
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23-12-2013, 10:39 PM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
Are you talking about the definition of God or about the relevance of whether someone should care if some else believes in their definition of God?
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24-12-2013, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 01:16 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
Oh, look -- more idiot-presuppositionalist-bullshit "my gawd-x exists whether you believe it does or not" bullshit semantic prestidigitation.

No, it's not new at all. You didn't even bother to pander it in some new and/or original way.



/thread

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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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24-12-2013, 02:07 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
Why believing you have won the lottery (when you haven't) is irrelevant.

Belief isn't irrelevant when it informs your decisions. Believing you have won the lottery, when you haven't can lead to a great many problems in your life and can upset relationships as well as cause stress at work to the point where you could be fired or found unfit to work.

When you believe things that are untrue, your mind is operating under false sense of reality.
Your decisions can't be trusted when you can't even evaluate reality correctly.

This is not irrelevant. Far from it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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24-12-2013, 02:55 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
I got a bottle of rum that's pretty irrelevant until I get behind the wheel... this sounds like that igtheism stuff. Dodgy

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24-12-2013, 03:55 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(23-12-2013 10:39 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Are you talking about the definition of God or about the relevance of whether someone should care if some else believes in their definition of God?

Both, that there is no correct definition of God but also that no one should care whether they believe in their God.
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24-12-2013, 04:17 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 01:11 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Oh, look -- more idiot-presuppositionalist-bullshit "my gawd-x exists whether you believe it does or not" bullshit semantic prestidigitation.

No, it's not new at all. You didn't even bother to pander it in some new and/or original way.

First of all, you presupposed that I have a God, second, it is a new way of thinking for me.
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24-12-2013, 04:49 AM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2013 04:59 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 04:17 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 01:11 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Oh, look -- more idiot-presuppositionalist-bullshit "my gawd-x exists whether you believe it does or not" bullshit semantic prestidigitation.

No, it's not new at all. You didn't even bother to pander it in some new and/or original way.

First of all, you presupposed that I have a God, second, it is a new way of thinking for me.

It's called ignosticism, go look it up. Drinking Beverage


Quote:Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that every theological position (except ignostics') assumes too much about the concept of God and other theological concepts; including (but not limited to) concepts of faith, spirituality, heaven, hell, afterlife, damnation, salvation, sin and the soul.

Ignosticism is the view that any religious term or theological concept presented must be accompanied by a coherent definition. Without a clear definition such terms cannot be meaningfully discussed. Such terms or concepts must also be unfalsifiable. Lacking this an ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the existence or nature of the terms presented (and all matters of debate) is meaningless. For example, the term "God" does not refer to anything reasonably defined nor is there any conceivable method to test against the existence of god. Therefore the term "God" has no literal significance and need not be debated or discussed.

Some philosophers have seen ignosticism as a variation of agnosticism or atheism, while others have considered it to be distinct.

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24-12-2013, 04:54 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(23-12-2013 07:33 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  The word "God" is rather meaningless. People may ask someone if they believe in God, but they assume that the person has the same definition of God that they do. Many people who do believe there is a God have different opinions on exactly what defines him. A definition must be given before someone can even think about it. Atheists can disagree on exactly what it is that they don't believe in.

Does God depend on his creation to believe that he exists? God can exist, whether or not you believe or approve of it. It is not as though belief in something makes it true. A lack of belief doesn't make it false. I think most likely people believe things based on all the evidence of their own experiences. If you don't believe in God, it is not really the job of any human to try to convince you that he exists because obviously, they don't think he can show himself to you if he wanted to. If you do believe in God, then maybe you have a reason for it. No one should try to force you to give up your faith, knowledge, or experiences that led to them.

If we were created by God, he obviously gave us brains. He couldn't expect us to just ignore our thoughts. Maybe God wants us to think for ourselves. What harm can come from asking questions, reading books, or talking to others about what they believe? Why would God be angry at people for trying to learn?

The next time someone asks me if I believe in God, I will first ask them what God is. I think that it only makes sense to define what we are talking about first. Imagine if person 1 were to ask person 2 if they believed in Chandler Klebs. Person 1 would probably ask for a definition. Person 2 could say "A crazy man who writes about subjects he knows nothing about". Person 1 could say, "That doesn't make any sense! I don't believe in Chandler Klebs!". Person 1 would be correct but person 2 is also correct in that it doesn't make sense. I wouldn't blame them for saying that the definition makes no sense. But for them to assume that I don't exist would be false. But they can live their lives without knowing about me. To me, whether someone believes I exist is irrelevant to what I am doing. I think that just maybe God is the same way. I could be wrong but that is irrelevant! Make up your own mind.

If there is a whole book of that it could be of use to people in palliative care, people that are waiting to die but that aren't ready to die. The writing style and apparent pointlessness of a book length version of this would make the subjective experience of time slow down: minutes would soon come to feel like hours and hours soon like days, days like weeks...The tedium would provide a subjective life extension. Conversely, the utter tedium combined with the reader's attempt to step into the mind of the author could be sufficient to wrest the palliative care patient's tenuous grip on life. The book length version of this could serve as the last existential insult to a thoroughly demoralised person. I feel it could potentially satisfy both of these categories of palliative care patient. For those unable to read or for those that require a more potent tedious effect you could produce an audio book where you--Chandler Klebs--read your book aloud:





The book should have a profusion of digressive intermissions that aren't necessarily apposite to the topic--assuming that a topic could be discerned (which would be unlikely). I would include superfluous and irrelevant anecdotes, protracted and contrived illustrative examples of simple concepts (which I imagine that is what the book would exclusively contain) and laboured descriptions of obvious things. These--I think--would be consistent with the form and content of what you have posted here and on YT and your oeuvre as it were.

Your self-published book Shape Happens: Black and White--a book of line drawings of geometric figures such as this:

[Image: 2cejmsp.png]

tells us that you have a commitment to eliciting, "Why?!" from your readers. To that question you preemptively tell us, "The idea is to look at the shapes without having to consume electricity or constantly buy new ink for my printer". And that does make sense; why draw a circle in MS Paint and then print it and possibly laminate it and keep it--for whatever reason you might do this--when you can buy a book with a circle in it? "Can you show me a circle?," I may be asked. "Yes I have a book with a circle in it," I would reply. "Thank-you for showing me the picture of a circle," responds the person. "Don't thank me, thank Chandler Klebs," I would answer.

We have other self-published authors here on this forum. Your name can now be uttered in the same breath as Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. Chandler Klebs, Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. A constellation of stars in the literary galaxy. You authors can Skype and talk shop, workshop ideas, compare notes.

I don't want to sound over-ambitious but one day I hope to gather the US$500 I need to self-publish something that no publishing company would touch. Am I aiming high? Perhaps a little.
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24-12-2013, 05:01 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 04:54 AM)Chippy Wrote:  If there is a whole book of that it could be of use to people in palliative care, people that are waiting to die but that aren't ready to die. The writing style and apparent pointlessness of a book length version of this would make the subjective experience of time slow down: minutes would soon come to feel like hours and hours soon like days, days like weeks...The tedium would provide a subjective life extension. Conversely, the utter tedium combined with the reader's attempt to step into the mind of the author could be sufficient to wrest the palliative care patient's tenuous grip on life. The book length version of this could serve as the last existential insult to a thoroughly demoralised person. I feel it could potentially satisfy both of these categories of palliative care patient. For those unable to read or for those that require a more potent tedious effect you could produce an audio book where you--Chandler Klebs--read your book aloud:





The book should have a profusion of digressive intermissions that aren't necessarily apposite to the topic--assuming that a topic could be discerned (which would be unlikely). I would include superfluous and irrelevant anecdotes, protracted and contrived illustrative examples of simple concepts (which I imagine that is what the book would exclusively contain) and laboured descriptions of obvious things. These--I think--would be consistent with the form and content of what you have posted here and on YT and your oeuvre as it were.

Your self-published book Shape Happens: Black and White--a book of line drawings of geometric figures such as this:

[Image: 2cejmsp.png]

tells us that you have a commitment to eliciting, "Why?!" from your readers. To that question you preemptively tell us, "The idea is to look at the shapes without having to consume electricity or constantly buy new ink for my printer". And that does make sense; why draw a circle in MS Paint and then print it and possibly laminate it and keep it--for whatever reason you might do this--when you can buy a book with a circle in it? "Can you show me a circle?," I may be asked. "Yes I have a book with a circle in it," I would reply. "Thank-you for showing me the picture of a circle," responds the person. "Don't thank me, thank Chandler Klebs," I would answer.

We have other self-published authors here on this forum. Your name can now be uttered in the same breath as Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. Chandler Klebs, Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. A constellation of stars in the literary galaxy. You authors can Skype and talk shop, workshop ideas, compare notes.

I don't want to sound over-ambitious but one day I hope to gather the US$500 I need to self-publish something that no publishing company would touch. Am I aiming high? Perhaps a little.

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Brilliant satire. [Image: 3xNuwIr.gif]

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