Why believing God exists is irrelevant
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24-12-2013, 08:02 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 04:54 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 07:33 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  The word "God" is rather meaningless. People may ask someone if they believe in God, but they assume that the person has the same definition of God that they do. Many people who do believe there is a God have different opinions on exactly what defines him. A definition must be given before someone can even think about it. Atheists can disagree on exactly what it is that they don't believe in.

Does God depend on his creation to believe that he exists? God can exist, whether or not you believe or approve of it. It is not as though belief in something makes it true. A lack of belief doesn't make it false. I think most likely people believe things based on all the evidence of their own experiences. If you don't believe in God, it is not really the job of any human to try to convince you that he exists because obviously, they don't think he can show himself to you if he wanted to. If you do believe in God, then maybe you have a reason for it. No one should try to force you to give up your faith, knowledge, or experiences that led to them.

If we were created by God, he obviously gave us brains. He couldn't expect us to just ignore our thoughts. Maybe God wants us to think for ourselves. What harm can come from asking questions, reading books, or talking to others about what they believe? Why would God be angry at people for trying to learn?

The next time someone asks me if I believe in God, I will first ask them what God is. I think that it only makes sense to define what we are talking about first. Imagine if person 1 were to ask person 2 if they believed in Chandler Klebs. Person 1 would probably ask for a definition. Person 2 could say "A crazy man who writes about subjects he knows nothing about". Person 1 could say, "That doesn't make any sense! I don't believe in Chandler Klebs!". Person 1 would be correct but person 2 is also correct in that it doesn't make sense. I wouldn't blame them for saying that the definition makes no sense. But for them to assume that I don't exist would be false. But they can live their lives without knowing about me. To me, whether someone believes I exist is irrelevant to what I am doing. I think that just maybe God is the same way. I could be wrong but that is irrelevant! Make up your own mind.

If there is a whole book of that it could be of use to people in palliative care, people that are waiting to die but that aren't ready to die. The writing style and apparent pointlessness of a book length version of this would make the subjective experience of time slow down: minutes would soon come to feel like hours and hours soon like days, days like weeks...The tedium would provide a subjective life extension. Conversely, the utter tedium combined with the reader's attempt to step into the mind of the author could be sufficient to wrest the palliative care patient's tenuous grip on life. The book length version of this could serve as the last existential insult to a thoroughly demoralised person. I feel it could potentially satisfy both of these categories of palliative care patient. For those unable to read or for those that require a more potent tedious effect you could produce an audio book where you--Chandler Klebs--read your book aloud:





The book should have a profusion of digressive intermissions that aren't necessarily apposite to the topic--assuming that a topic could be discerned (which would be unlikely). I would include superfluous and irrelevant anecdotes, protracted and contrived illustrative examples of simple concepts (which I imagine that is what the book would exclusively contain) and laboured descriptions of obvious things. These--I think--would be consistent with the form and content of what you have posted here and on YT and your oeuvre as it were.

Your self-published book Shape Happens: Black and White--a book of line drawings of geometric figures such as this:

[Image: 2cejmsp.png]

tells us that you have a commitment to eliciting, "Why?!" from your readers. To that question you preemptively tell us, "The idea is to look at the shapes without having to consume electricity or constantly buy new ink for my printer". And that does make sense; why draw a circle in MS Paint and then print it and possibly laminate it and keep it--for whatever reason you might do this--when you can buy a book with a circle in it? "Can you show me a circle?," I may be asked. "Yes I have a book with a circle in it," I would reply. "Thank-you for showing me the picture of a circle," responds the person. "Don't thank me, thank Chandler Klebs," I would answer.

We have other self-published authors here on this forum. Your name can now be uttered in the same breath as Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. Chandler Klebs, Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. A constellation of stars in the literary galaxy. You authors can Skype and talk shop, workshop ideas, compare notes.

I don't want to sound over-ambitious but one day I hope to gather the US$500 I need to self-publish something that no publishing company would touch. Am I aiming high? Perhaps a little.

Chippy, your reply is very relevant! I am amazed that you actually understood about my shape boom too. Also, I would like to help you out about publishing your own book. I have been publishing with createspace because it is free. My mom's books as well as my own books were edited using OpenOffice. The kindle editions were pretty easy to do as well through kindle direct publishing. I hope that helps you. Thanks again for your feedback. You may have given me some ideas.
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24-12-2013, 07:16 PM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 04:17 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 01:11 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Oh, look -- more idiot-presuppositionalist-bullshit "my gawd-x exists whether you believe it does or not" bullshit semantic prestidigitation.

No, it's not new at all. You didn't even bother to pander it in some new and/or original way.

First of all, you presupposed that I have a God, second, it is a new way of thinking for me.

You said this, right?:

"To me, whether someone believes I exist is irrelevant to what I am doing. I think that just maybe God is the same way."

That statement claims that this "god" exists whether anyone believes in it or not. I didn't presuppose shit. YOU did.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-12-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
I think you missed the part where I said "But they can live their lives without knowing about me."

The general idea is that just as people are fine without knowledge of me, they also can live without knowing God exists.

As for me, I am not trying to say that God does or does not exist. I just don't think that theists or atheists should make such a big deal of it.

My current project is explaining why many things in this world are irrelevant to me.
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25-12-2013, 07:18 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 08:02 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 04:54 AM)Chippy Wrote:  If there is a whole book of that it could be of use to people in palliative care, people that are waiting to die but that aren't ready to die. The writing style and apparent pointlessness of a book length version of this would make the subjective experience of time slow down: minutes would soon come to feel like hours and hours soon like days, days like weeks...The tedium would provide a subjective life extension. Conversely, the utter tedium combined with the reader's attempt to step into the mind of the author could be sufficient to wrest the palliative care patient's tenuous grip on life. The book length version of this could serve as the last existential insult to a thoroughly demoralised person. I feel it could potentially satisfy both of these categories of palliative care patient. For those unable to read or for those that require a more potent tedious effect you could produce an audio book where you--Chandler Klebs--read your book aloud:





The book should have a profusion of digressive intermissions that aren't necessarily apposite to the topic--assuming that a topic could be discerned (which would be unlikely). I would include superfluous and irrelevant anecdotes, protracted and contrived illustrative examples of simple concepts (which I imagine that is what the book would exclusively contain) and laboured descriptions of obvious things. These--I think--would be consistent with the form and content of what you have posted here and on YT and your oeuvre as it were.

Your self-published book Shape Happens: Black and White--a book of line drawings of geometric figures such as this:

[Image: 2cejmsp.png]

tells us that you have a commitment to eliciting, "Why?!" from your readers. To that question you preemptively tell us, "The idea is to look at the shapes without having to consume electricity or constantly buy new ink for my printer". And that does make sense; why draw a circle in MS Paint and then print it and possibly laminate it and keep it--for whatever reason you might do this--when you can buy a book with a circle in it? "Can you show me a circle?," I may be asked. "Yes I have a book with a circle in it," I would reply. "Thank-you for showing me the picture of a circle," responds the person. "Don't thank me, thank Chandler Klebs," I would answer.

We have other self-published authors here on this forum. Your name can now be uttered in the same breath as Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. Chandler Klebs, Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. A constellation of stars in the literary galaxy. You authors can Skype and talk shop, workshop ideas, compare notes.

I don't want to sound over-ambitious but one day I hope to gather the US$500 I need to self-publish something that no publishing company would touch. Am I aiming high? Perhaps a little.

Chippy, your reply is very relevant! I am amazed that you actually understood about my shape boom too. Also, I would like to help you out about publishing your own book. I have been publishing with createspace because it is free. My mom's books as well as my own books were edited using OpenOffice. The kindle editions were pretty easy to do as well through kindle direct publishing. I hope that helps you. Thanks again for your feedback. You may have given me some ideas.

Perhaps Chippy can write the preface or one of these review excerpts printed on the cover.
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25-12-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(24-12-2013 08:02 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  
(24-12-2013 04:54 AM)Chippy Wrote:  If there is a whole book of that it could be of use to people in palliative care, people that are waiting to die but that aren't ready to die. The writing style and apparent pointlessness of a book length version of this would make the subjective experience of time slow down: minutes would soon come to feel like hours and hours soon like days, days like weeks...The tedium would provide a subjective life extension. Conversely, the utter tedium combined with the reader's attempt to step into the mind of the author could be sufficient to wrest the palliative care patient's tenuous grip on life. The book length version of this could serve as the last existential insult to a thoroughly demoralised person. I feel it could potentially satisfy both of these categories of palliative care patient. For those unable to read or for those that require a more potent tedious effect you could produce an audio book where you--Chandler Klebs--read your book aloud:





The book should have a profusion of digressive intermissions that aren't necessarily apposite to the topic--assuming that a topic could be discerned (which would be unlikely). I would include superfluous and irrelevant anecdotes, protracted and contrived illustrative examples of simple concepts (which I imagine that is what the book would exclusively contain) and laboured descriptions of obvious things. These--I think--would be consistent with the form and content of what you have posted here and on YT and your oeuvre as it were.

Your self-published book Shape Happens: Black and White--a book of line drawings of geometric figures such as this:

[Image: 2cejmsp.png]

tells us that you have a commitment to eliciting, "Why?!" from your readers. To that question you preemptively tell us, "The idea is to look at the shapes without having to consume electricity or constantly buy new ink for my printer". And that does make sense; why draw a circle in MS Paint and then print it and possibly laminate it and keep it--for whatever reason you might do this--when you can buy a book with a circle in it? "Can you show me a circle?," I may be asked. "Yes I have a book with a circle in it," I would reply. "Thank-you for showing me the picture of a circle," responds the person. "Don't thank me, thank Chandler Klebs," I would answer.

We have other self-published authors here on this forum. Your name can now be uttered in the same breath as Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. Chandler Klebs, Mark Fulton and Diogenes of Mayberry. A constellation of stars in the literary galaxy. You authors can Skype and talk shop, workshop ideas, compare notes.

I don't want to sound over-ambitious but one day I hope to gather the US$500 I need to self-publish something that no publishing company would touch. Am I aiming high? Perhaps a little.

Chippy, your reply is very relevant! I am amazed that you actually understood about my shape boom too. Also, I would like to help you out about publishing your own book. I have been publishing with createspace because it is free. My mom's books as well as my own books were edited using OpenOffice. The kindle editions were pretty easy to do as well through kindle direct publishing. I hope that helps you. Thanks again for your feedback. You may have given me some ideas.

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25-12-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
(25-12-2013 06:19 AM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  I think you missed the part where I said "But they can live their lives without knowing about me."

I didn't miss it at all and my criticism stands.

Quote:The general idea is that just as people are fine without knowledge of me, they also can live without knowing God exists.

Are you trying to say, "...without knowing whether or not the xtian god exists"?

Because that is pretty much the position of an agnostic or an agnostic atheist, but you aren't going to get anywhere with your assumption that this god exists whether we believe in it or not.

One big reason is that the myth holds that non-belief will bring down eternal punishment on you in a supposed eternal after-life life. That's not a threat anyone could ignore if BabbleGawd actually existed. Your premise doesn't hold water.


The other problem is that theists are mandated to spread the disease and stuff their deity down everyone's throats.

Quote:As for me, I am not trying to say that God does or does not exist.

If that is the case, then don't word it in a way that presumes that it does exist.

Quote:I just don't think that theists or atheists should make such a big deal of it.

We don't, either. But good luck convincing any xtians of that.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-12-2013, 11:29 AM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
The reason I sound like I am presupposing that a God exists is because my book is aimed more at theists to get them to stop preaching at atheists.

Right now I could easily be described as atheist or apatheist. I don't think that it is impossible for a creator of the universe to exist but I see no reason I should care.

My current project is explaining why many things in this world are irrelevant to me.
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25-12-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Why believing God exists is irrelevant
Okay, but I don't think you are going to get anywhere with them with that.

You might try it with one or two of the theists here, just to test my theory.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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