Why choose between Left or Right?
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17-04-2014, 07:40 AM
Why choose between Left or Right?
Western culture is broken in many ways.

You might think I am going to give you the usual spiel about invading other countries or how our economic system put money before people... or any number of tired clichés. Most of these arguments, it seems, highlight Government or economic wrongdoings whilst blaming "Western culture".

But for all the ranting about Western culture, the pseudo-intellectuals have got one thing right - our culture is indeed broken. We seem to have reached the left-most end of the pendulum swing and are seeing the problems that come with being too liberal, too open-minded, too politically correct... too nice.

The (now in-fashion) left-wing seems to be a self-appointed judge, jury and executioner in deciding who is and who isn't racist, bigoted, prejudice etc... The problem is that this self-appointed licence to demonise others is incompatible with the intellectual-laziness inherent in the Left-wing's DNA... If you are too lazy to check facts, studies, research hypotheses, listen to other's points of view etc, you lose the right to point fingers and call other people racist. Unfortunately, this obvious truth seems to be lost on the left and they are usually content watching the latest conspiracy theory internet video as a source of their world view.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that to pledge allegiance to either the Left Wing or the Right Wing of the political spectrum is an unscientific way of approaching culture and politics. It implies there is a "one-size fits all" approach to life. Even those who claim to be "just left of center" or "moderate" seem to me to be conditioned rather than thinking... Clearly it is more scientific to deal with any situation on its own merits. There is no need to follow a political template to do the thinking for you.

If you are still conditioned to choose between left or right and are not sure why these labels are potentially harmful, just consider this; How silly it is for someone to ask an all-too-common question like "I'm liberal, where do we stand on stem cell research?"... This type of question is as frequent as it is silly. It reveals that the person asking the question is not thinking for themselves but instead opts for the label to do the thinking for them. And it is at this point that political labels become dangerous. The behaviour of this meme seems to lead to people grouping together under a united political allegiance and giving up their thinking rights in the process!

It is precisely the same meme DNA which leads to things like militant Islam, Nazi Germany, Xenophobic Russia or genocidal Burundi.... Right or left makes no difference - there is nothing scarier than a mob of people who don't think for themselves.

In short, don't be lazy enough to outsource your thinking to a political template. It is unscientific, dangerous and in the greater scheme of things... divisive.
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17-04-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
All large political doctrines are rich in difficult problems -- problems that are quite above the average citizen's reach. And that is not strange, since they are also above the reach of the ablest minds in the country; after all the fuss and all the talk, not one of those doctrines has been conclusively proven to be the right one and the best.- "The Privilege of the Grave," Who Is Mark Twain?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-04-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
Quote:. If you are too lazy to check facts, studies, research hypotheses, listen to other's points of view etc, you lose the right to point fingers and call other people racist

Um, try again, that one falls under the freedom of speech.

'Muricans retaining the right to be dumb as fuck in politics. Thumbsup


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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17-04-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
Quote: there is nothing scarier than a mob of people who don't think for themselves.

Agreed


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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17-04-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
I would tend to agree with you. It would seem to me that some people tend to hold their political views much like that of the the religious, in faith without evidence to back up their claims.
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17-04-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Western culture is broken in many ways.

You might think I am going to give you the usual spiel about invading other countries or how our economic system put money before people... or any number of tired clichés. Most of these arguments, it seems, highlight Government or economic wrongdoings whilst blaming "Western culture".

But for all the ranting about Western culture, the pseudo-intellectuals have got one thing right - our culture is indeed broken. We seem to have reached the left-most end of the pendulum swing and are seeing the problems that come with being too liberal, too open-minded, too politically correct... too nice.

Yes. That whole "invading other countries" and "putting money before people" is a very left-wing mindset. wut?

Also - pseudointellectuals? wut? Like, who?

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  The (now in-fashion) left-wing seems to be a self-appointed judge, jury and executioner in deciding who is and who isn't racist, bigoted, prejudice etc...

Yes, that's called having opinions; it's rather common across all ends of the human spectrum.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  The problem is that this self-appointed licence to demonise others is incompatible with the intellectual-laziness inherent in the Left-wing's DNA... If you are too lazy to check facts, studies, research hypotheses, listen to other's points of view etc, you lose the right to point fingers and call other people racist.

Protip: if people interpret what you're saying as racist, you should probably think of a better way to phrase it.

But, I'm still pretty sure it doesn't take extensive fact-checking and background research to make that call.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Unfortunately, this obvious truth seems to be lost on the left and they are usually content watching the latest conspiracy theory internet video as a source of their world view.

"Labels are bad, therefore I will harshly judge anyone who I consider to fall within a certain broad group".

ITT: making ludicrous, sweeping generalisations for fun and profit.

(but no, seriously buddy, citation needed - do you know what irony means?)

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It doesn't take a genius...

That kind of sentiment never ends well.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  ... to realise that to pledge allegiance to either the Left Wing or the Right Wing of the political spectrum is an unscientific way of approaching culture and politics. It implies there is a "one-size fits all" approach to life. Even those who claim to be "just left of center" or "moderate" seem to me to be conditioned rather than thinking... Clearly it is more scientific to deal with any situation on its own merits. There is no need to follow a political template to do the thinking for you.

Cool story. That's not how it works.

Certain opinions tend to correlate; this is rather inevitable given specific moral and social premises. Those sharing similar premises then exhibit correlation between their views as well... "Left" and "right" are not official terms. They are catch-all generalised categories. It's all well and good to say "label r bad lol" but it turns out that having words to refer to positive correlations is actually pretty handy.

Political parties and other political organisations usually have official stances on some topics. So what? In what fantasyland does every single party member (note: official party members in most developed countries are a tiny percentage of the population) have to - or indeed wish to - adopt every single offical position to the exclusion of all else? Do you seriously think that's common?

I won't be quite so bold as to say that literally never happens, but, seriously now: wut?

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  If you are still conditioned to choose between left or right...

Yeah, that's still not how it works.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  ... and are not sure why these labels are potentially harmful, just consider this; How silly it is for someone to ask an all-too-common question like "I'm liberal, where do we stand on stem cell research?"... This type of question is as frequent as it is silly.

"All too common", eh? "Frequent", eh?

Well, but I guess that might have happened at least once...

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It reveals that the person asking the question is not thinking for themselves but instead opts for the label to do the thinking for them. And it is at this point that political labels become dangerous. The behaviour of this meme seems to lead to people grouping together under a united political allegiance and giving up their thinking rights in the process!

Except going from "abrogation of responsibility is dangerous" to "all political labels are dangerous" to "anyone who self-identifies with any coherent political viewpoint is therefore dangerous" takes a trip across the bridge of insane troll logic. And that's a bridge too far.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It is precisely the same meme DNA which leads to things like militant Islam, Nazi Germany, Xenophobic Russia or genocidal Burundi....

Rwanda, mate.

(also, lol Godwin)

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Right or left makes no difference - there is nothing scarier than a mob of people who don't think for themselves.

Indeed.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  In short, don't be lazy enough to outsource your thinking to a political template. It is unscientific, dangerous and in the greater scheme of things... divisive.

Indeed.

Do you have any reason to think that happens much?

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17-04-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
(17-04-2014 08:05 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
Quote:. If you are too lazy to check facts, studies, research hypotheses, listen to other's points of view etc, you lose the right to point fingers and call other people racist

Um, try again, that one falls under the freedom of speech.

'Muricans retaining the right to be dumb as fuck in politics. Thumbsup

Just to be clear, I am speaking figuratively... Of course you don't really lose the right to freedom of speech. I am not making a call for a change in law, I am making a call for a change in culture.
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17-04-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
(17-04-2014 08:40 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Western culture is broken in many ways.

You might think I am going to give you the usual spiel about invading other countries or how our economic system put money before people... or any number of tired clichés. Most of these arguments, it seems, highlight Government or economic wrongdoings whilst blaming "Western culture".

But for all the ranting about Western culture, the pseudo-intellectuals have got one thing right - our culture is indeed broken. We seem to have reached the left-most end of the pendulum swing and are seeing the problems that come with being too liberal, too open-minded, too politically correct... too nice.

Yes. That whole "invading other countries" and "putting money before people" is a very left-wing mindset. wut?

Also - pseudointellectuals? wut? Like, who?

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  The (now in-fashion) left-wing seems to be a self-appointed judge, jury and executioner in deciding who is and who isn't racist, bigoted, prejudice etc...

Yes, that's called having opinions; it's rather common across all ends of the human spectrum.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  The problem is that this self-appointed licence to demonise others is incompatible with the intellectual-laziness inherent in the Left-wing's DNA... If you are too lazy to check facts, studies, research hypotheses, listen to other's points of view etc, you lose the right to point fingers and call other people racist.

Protip: if people interpret what you're saying as racist, you should probably think of a better way to phrase it.

But, I'm still pretty sure it doesn't take extensive fact-checking and background research to make that call.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Unfortunately, this obvious truth seems to be lost on the left and they are usually content watching the latest conspiracy theory internet video as a source of their world view.

"Labels are bad, therefore I will harshly judge anyone who I consider to fall within a certain broad group".

ITT: making ludicrous, sweeping generalisations for fun and profit.

(but no, seriously buddy, citation needed - do you know what irony means?)

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It doesn't take a genius...

That kind of sentiment never ends well.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  ... to realise that to pledge allegiance to either the Left Wing or the Right Wing of the political spectrum is an unscientific way of approaching culture and politics. It implies there is a "one-size fits all" approach to life. Even those who claim to be "just left of center" or "moderate" seem to me to be conditioned rather than thinking... Clearly it is more scientific to deal with any situation on its own merits. There is no need to follow a political template to do the thinking for you.

Cool story. That's not how it works.

Certain opinions tend to correlate; this is rather inevitable given specific moral and social premises. Those sharing similar premises then exhibit correlation between their views as well... "Left" and "right" are not official terms. They are catch-all generalised categories. It's all well and good to say "label r bad lol" but it turns out that having words to refer to positive correlations is actually pretty handy.

Political parties and other political organisations usually have official stances on some topics. So what? In what fantasyland does every single party member (note: official party members in most developed countries are a tiny percentage of the population) have to - or indeed wish to - adopt every single offical position to the exclusion of all else? Do you seriously think that's common?

I won't be quite so bold as to say that literally never happens, but, seriously now: wut?

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  If you are still conditioned to choose between left or right...

Yeah, that's still not how it works.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  ... and are not sure why these labels are potentially harmful, just consider this; How silly it is for someone to ask an all-too-common question like "I'm liberal, where do we stand on stem cell research?"... This type of question is as frequent as it is silly.

"All too common", eh? "Frequent", eh?

Well, but I guess that might have happened at least once...

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It reveals that the person asking the question is not thinking for themselves but instead opts for the label to do the thinking for them. And it is at this point that political labels become dangerous. The behaviour of this meme seems to lead to people grouping together under a united political allegiance and giving up their thinking rights in the process!

Except going from "abrogation of responsibility is dangerous" to "all political labels are dangerous" to "anyone who self-identifies with any coherent political viewpoint is therefore dangerous" takes a trip across the bridge of insane troll logic. And that's a bridge too far.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  It is precisely the same meme DNA which leads to things like militant Islam, Nazi Germany, Xenophobic Russia or genocidal Burundi....

Rwanda, mate.

(also, lol Godwin)

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Right or left makes no difference - there is nothing scarier than a mob of people who don't think for themselves.

Indeed.

(17-04-2014 07:40 AM)Ewok Wrote:  In short, don't be lazy enough to outsource your thinking to a political template. It is unscientific, dangerous and in the greater scheme of things... divisive.

Indeed.

Do you have any reason to think that happens much?

Wow, a lot of nit picking in this reply... I am not able to give you a full response right now, but will respond to your points soon.
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17-04-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
http://www.policymic.com/articles/87719/...-democracy


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17-04-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Why choose between Left or Right?
(17-04-2014 08:43 AM)Ewok Wrote:  Wow, a lot of nit picking in this reply... I am not able to give you a full response right now, but will respond to your points soon.

It's not really nit-picking; it's kinda more central criticism than that.

But I do admit my tone left a little to be desired.

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