Why did God create Evil?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-01-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(08-01-2014 06:05 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  There is a fundamental duality in the universe, a cosmic version of Newton's 3rd law, to every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. Male/Female, Positive/Negative, Plus/Minus, Black/White, Matter/Anti-matter, Light/Dark, Left/Right, Up/Down....Good/Evil. It would seems pretty much everything in the universe has its counter-point.

Well, some things are dual, others not. Particles come in 3 charges, there are 6 kinds of quarks. What's the opposite of gravity? And so many things are on a spectrum or continuum.

Quote:Now as for the God question. Those of faith would have us believe that God is a omni cubed being, that he/she is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (of the three, this one scares me the most as it conjures up Censored images best left in the dark recesses of ones mind Big Grin) in other words, all knowing, ever present and all powerful. He/She is also suppose to be the great architect of all reality, in that he/she designed and created everything, now this is import as it comes into play later.

Not everyone of faith believes in an omni³ deity.

Quote:God is also the embodiment of all that is good and pure, he/she is good personified, at least that is what we are lead to believe. Of course we must forget the bits of text in his/her book where he/she admits to being a jealous and vengeful god.

But God had a problem, given that he/she created a universe of duality, he/she needed evil and more importantly the personification of evil to act as a counter-balance and to highlight his/her goodness. So God was forced to first create evil and then have the ultimate patsy Lucifer become the embodiment of evil. When I say Lucifer is the ultimate patsy, I mean it. God the all powerful the all knowing created everything, including evil and Lucifer and God not only knew that Lucifer would rebel against him and thus become a fallen angel, God created Lucifer to just that, at least that is the story.

So while Lucifer aka Satan is suppose to be the embodiment of pure evil, one could argue that the actual embodiment of evil is none other then God him/herself, as he/she was the one that created and set in motion all the evils in then world. Basically, God him/herself rigged the game right from the start so that we poor mere mortals would fail, and rarely if ever meet his/her high standards.

Of course to believe this, you need to believe in an all powerful sky daddy and an almost equally powerful but not quite (as he has to lose the final battle between good and evil) devil residing just below your feet underground. If you do, then please drop me an IM, as I have a business opportunity and some real estate for sale to discuss with you, I promise, on God's word, you won't be disappointed. Evil_monster

Yabut, not everything is duality. No

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-01-2014, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 08-01-2014 07:15 PM by Lazarus Unchained.)
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 06:05 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  There is a fundamental duality in the universe, a cosmic version of Newton's 3rd law, to every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. Male/Female, Positive/Negative, Plus/Minus, Black/White, Matter/Anti-matter, Light/Dark, Left/Right, Up/Down....Good/Evil. It would seems pretty much everything in the universe has its counter-point.

Well, some things are dual, others not. Particles come in 3 charges, there are 6 kinds of quarks. What's the opposite of gravity? And so many things are on a spectrum or continuum.

You are speaking of the quantum universe of sub-atomic and exotic particles and a place I cannot even begin to truly understand as its maths are far above my pay grade. However, lets take matter and anti-matter for example. Physicists believe that for every atom of matter, there is a equal and opposite anti-matter atom. CERN created the first anti-hydrogen atom back in 1995, thus pretty much proving anti-matter existed. Now given that anti-matter exists at the atomic level, then it stands to reason that is also exist at the sub-atomic and quantum levels, therefore the duality of nature for the sake of this argument stands.

As for gravity, work and research is underway to create anti-gravs, and some such as Russian Eugene Podkletnov claimed to have observed anti-grav effects, their work has yet to be replicated. However, it is a fairly new field of study, so who knows what is coming down the pike.

(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 06:05 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  Now as for the God question. Those of faith would have us believe that God is a omni cubed being, that he/she is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent (of the three, this one scares me the most as it conjures up Censored images best left in the dark recesses of ones mind Big Grin) in other words, all knowing, ever present and all powerful. He/She is also suppose to be the great architect of all reality, in that he/she designed and created everything, now this is import as it comes into play later.

Not everyone of faith believes in an omni³ deity.

Lets face it, when it comes to "God", even members of competing sub-sects of sects can't agree on who or what God is or isn't. Christians for centuries have been merrily killing not only heathen Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or what have you off in job lots in the name of God, but also other Christians just because they worship a different way. Some Christians actually reject the idea of the Holy Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, go figure.

Other religions reject the concept of God the Father Figure and Redeemer completely and see god as a godhead, that is to say a spiritual being that exist in another plane and who send down pieces of itself (us) to this plane of existence in order to learn "lessons" and once all the lessons are learned, God will ascend to the next level of existence.

To many believers, the omni³ deity is required to justify their own existence and belief structure, take it away from them and their entire world view collapses. However, you failed to make note of an important point I made, that God is (in the eyes of the believer) also suppose to be the great architect of all reality, in that he/she designed and created everything.
(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 06:05 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  God is also the embodiment of all that is good and pure, he/she is good personified, at least that is what we are lead to believe. Of course we must forget the bits of text in his/her book where he/she admits to being a jealous and vengeful god.

But God had a problem, given that he/she created a universe of duality, he/she needed evil and more importantly the personification of evil to act as a counter-balance and to highlight his/her goodness. So God was forced to first create evil and then have the ultimate patsy Lucifer become the embodiment of evil. When I say Lucifer is the ultimate patsy, I mean it. God the all powerful the all knowing created everything, including evil and Lucifer and God not only knew that Lucifer would rebel against him and thus become a fallen angel, God created Lucifer to just that, at least that is the story.

So while Lucifer aka Satan is suppose to be the embodiment of pure evil, one could argue that the actual embodiment of evil is none other then God him/herself, as he/she was the one that created and set in motion all the evils in then world. Basically, God him/herself rigged the game right from the start so that we poor mere mortals would fail, and rarely if ever meet his/her high standards.

Of course to believe this, you need to believe in an all powerful sky daddy and an almost equally powerful but not quite (as he has to lose the final battle between good and evil) devil residing just below your feet underground. If you do, then please drop me an IM, as I have a business opportunity and some real estate for sale to discuss with you, I promise, on God's word, you won't be disappointed. Evil_monster


Yabut, not everything is duality. No

Again you are focusing on one small point. The main points of my argument are:
1) God (if you believe in him/her) created not only evil, but the devil as well.
2) God rigged the game from the start, we all including Lucifer were set up to fail from the get-go.
3) Therefore God him/herself must be considered to be the true and only embodiment of all that is evil.
4) There are gullible people out there that believe God exists and he is good, and I being rather opportunistic, would like to take financial advantage of them, after all why should only the church's and televangelist profit?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-01-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
Do this , don't do that.
Good is part of "this"
Evil is part of "that".
If I put on my Theist hat I don't see any issue.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-01-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(08-01-2014 07:11 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, some things are dual, others not. Particles come in 3 charges, there are 6 kinds of quarks. What's the opposite of gravity? And so many things are on a spectrum or continuum.

You are speaking of the quantum universe of sub-atomic and exotic particles and a place I cannot even begin to truly understand as its maths are far above my pay grade. However, lets take matter and anti-matter for example. Physicists believe that for every atom of matter, there is a equal and opposite anti-matter atom. CERN created the first anti-hydrogen atom back in 1995, thus pretty much proving anti-matter existed. Now given that anti-matter exists at the atomic level, then it stands to reason that is also exist at the sub-atomic and quantum levels, therefore the duality of nature for the sake of this argument stands.

As for gravity, work and research is underway to create anti-gravs, and some such as Russian Eugene Podkletnov claimed to have observed anti-grav effects, their work has yet to be replicated. However, it is a fairly new field of study, so who knows what is coming down the pike.

(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not everyone of faith believes in an omni³ deity.

Lets face it, when it comes to "God", even members of competing sub-sects of sects can't agree on who or what God is or isn't. Christians for centuries have been merrily killing not only heathen Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or what have you off in job lots in the name of God, but also other Christians just because they worship a different way. Some Christians actually reject the idea of the Holy Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, go figure.

Other religions reject the concept of God the Father Figure and Redeemer completely and see god as a godhead, that is to say a spiritual being that exist in another plane and who send down pieces of itself (us) to this plane of existence in order to learn "lessons" and once all the lessons are learned, God will ascend to the next level of existence.

To many believers, the omni³ deity is required to justify their own existence and belief structure, take it away from them and their entire world view collapses. However, you failed to make note of an important point I made, that God is (in the eyes of the believer) also suppose to be the great architect of all reality, in that he/she designed and created everything.
(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yabut, not everything is duality. No

Again you are focusing on one small point. The main points of my argument are:
1) God (if you believe in him/her) created not only evil, but the devil as well.
2) God rigged the game from the start, we all including Lucifer were set up to fail from the get-go.
3) Therefore God him/herself must be considered to be the true and only embodiment of all that is evil.
4) There are gullible people out there that believe God exists and he is good, and I being rather opportunistic, would like to take financial advantage of them, after all why should only the church's and televangelist profit?

Whatever. Just suggesting you drop 'duality' as a central thesis - it doesn't hold up.

And that kind of cosmic generalization gets very close to mysticism and woo.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
09-01-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(08-01-2014 06:05 PM)Lazarus Unchained Wrote:  There is a fundamental duality in the universe
No there isn't.
Quote:to every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.
How is that exactly duality ?
Quote:Male/Female, Positive/Negative, Plus/Minus, Black/White, Matter/Anti-matter, Light/Dark, Left/Right, Up/Down....Good/Evil.
And all of this is just made up by humans.. and is limited to only humans.Cool

I'd also like to point out the OBVIOUS fact to many that light&Darkness are not mutually exclusive..

Light is merely waves of photons caught by our eyes,many animals can even see UV and X-rays.

Same goes with colors.. they only exist in a human's brain.. outside our brain colors don't exist.

Colors are nothing but our brain's interpretation of contrasting wavelengths.
Quote:It would seems pretty much everything in the universe has its counter-point.
Only if you adamantly choose to see it that way.
Quote:When I say Lucifer is the ultimate patsy, I mean it.
Lucy what ? is that a woman ? .

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 08:04 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(08-01-2014 06:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  What's the opposite of gravity?
Anti-gravity. Hobo

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
I prefer the Marcion view where the Jesus was sent by a higher God to offer salvation from the evil God of the OT. See Christianity can solve any problem? ;-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
To answer the OP's question in the heading, I'd like to let Jim Jefferies say it better than I ever could.




Be sure you have someone up your sleeve who will save you when you find yourself in deep shit. - James D. Watson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Khare's post
10-01-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
God didn't create anything anymore than Mickey Mouse did. Super natural beings as claims are nothing but human reflections of our own narcissism.

In reality things like cancer, tsunamis and crime are a result of existence, not some stupid comic book super hero vs super villain.

As a character, much like a movie review or book review, when assessing such claims of the omi ilk, such a being can only be considered cruel or inept. The god character is a villain not a hero in a very horrible Russ Myer B horror film.

I am glad such a monster does not exist. I am sad for humanity that such divisive delusions still persist and divide us as a species.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: Why did God create Evil?
(10-01-2014 09:04 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  I am sad for humanity that such divisive delusions still persist and divide us as a species.
Now now! No need for sadness. That's evolution.
The natural world will certainly shake this out in time.
Drinking Beverage

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: