Why did God make so many idiots?
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16-02-2013, 11:11 AM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
(15-02-2013 05:18 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Not to sound crass, but you don't really have a solid grasp of election and predestination do you? I mean, have you actually studied it?
Good question. How much more studying do you recommend I do until I completely understand the damned have no hope of redemption and instead of 100% assurance of salvation (I'm not an Arminian) you want me to be unsure of my own election? If I'm going to be unsure I'm saved, can I least be something fun like a Mormon or a JW?
Given how (rightly) morally abhorrent predestination is to you, why does 100% assurance of salvation based on the acceptance of Jesus not repulse you also?


Children who do not believe and have done nothing wrong, or any moral person from any other religion (or lack thereof) get sent to Hell whereas someone who rapes children or someone else who commits mass murder can get into Heaven by just believing?


How is that not just as repugnant to you as the idea of condemning people to Hell from birth?
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16-02-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
(16-02-2013 11:11 AM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  How is that not just as repugnant to you as the idea of condemning people to Hell from birth?
...
If I may be so bold and answer my own question:

God made so many idiots so the repugnant ones wouldn't commit suicide when they looked in a mirror. Sadcryface2
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18-02-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
(11-02-2013 01:46 PM)Zat Wrote:  We all have seen them.

They are all over.

In government, in military, in business, in the citizenry at large and even on forums.
...
Actually, I think it was personal.

He wanted to aggravate me.

Punish me for not believing in him. Big Grin
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18-02-2013, 11:05 AM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
Quote:Given how (rightly) morally abhorrent predestination is to you, why does 100% assurance of salvation based on the acceptance of Jesus not repulse you also?


Children who do not believe and have done nothing wrong, or any moral person from any other religion (or lack thereof) get sent to Hell whereas someone who rapes children or someone else who commits mass murder can get into Heaven by just believing?


How is that not just as repugnant to you as the idea of condemning people to Hell from birth?
That is a very reasonable question. I don't believe that children who have not trusted Christ go to Hell. I do not believe that morally good people from other religions go to Hell automatically.
Very few paedophiles ever become Christians--I don't know if I can recall one such testimony from the last 20 years--although there are rapists and murderers of adults who do. Another evidence of the truths of the words of Jesus as where He said it's a terrible thing to harm a child... thank you.
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18-02-2013, 11:09 AM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
(18-02-2013 11:05 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Very few paedophiles ever become Christians [...]
That is quite accurate, at least in the case of the Catholic Church. Their priests were already Christians to begin with. Drinking Beverage

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
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18-02-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
Vosur, you've never heard how born again Christians are likely not Catholics? The verses more priests and nuns use to become born again are the 7 woes Jesus spoke to the Pharisees... VERY few Catholic priests are saved by trusting in Christ rather than there own "good" works. I mean, come on!
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18-02-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
Maybe a better question would be "Why did god make so many pedophiles?"

Or

"Why did god invent a system of punishment and reward that has the huge gaping hole of anyone that commits any act of unspeakable horror upon the world can forgo any punishment and reap the same rewards as the nice guy down the street who always did good by other people and both reap the rewards while the nice guy who stopped believing in fairy tales gets tortured for all eternity?"

I mean, come on!

And how hard have you looked for stories of conformed pedophiles who became christian?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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18-02-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
(18-02-2013 11:05 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Another evidence of the truths of the words of Jesus as where He said it's a terrible thing to harm a child... thank you.

Interesting. I wonder what Jesus thought of Psalms 137:9:

"Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock." [GOD'S WORD Translation]
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18-02-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
Quote:Maybe a better question would be "Why did god make so many pedophiles?"

Or

"Why did god invent a system of punishment and reward that has the huge gaping hole of anyone that commits any act of unspeakable horror upon the world can forgo any punishment and reap the same rewards as the nice guy down the street who always did good by other people and both reap the rewards while the nice guy who stopped believing in fairy tales gets tortured for all eternity?"

I mean, come on!

And how hard have you looked for stories of conformed pedophiles who became christian?
You'll need to ask my Calvinist brothers that one... I believe paedophiles have the power of choice. Although it's a loaded question... since "good" does not equal "without sin/perfect" and sin in the Bible is missing the mark of perfection. Ghandi? Good person! Idolater? Yes. Me and you? Good people? Perfect. No. No one can do anything wrong in Heaven or it's a dystopia. "Good people" go to Hell daily.
...And I've been sent/seen/read over a hundred testimonies from prisons but no paedophiles...
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18-02-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Why did God make so many idiots?
I was being contrary, as that must not have been too apparent.

Let me put the latter point of pedophile religious individuals in prison. Let's take a look at a few basic statistics.

The US prison population in 2010 (the latest year I found complete data for from http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pb...&iid=4559) was 1,362,028 (at the state level). Of these, 70,200 are incarcerated on rape charges and 90,600 are incarcerated on "Other sex" charges. That is 5.2% and 6.7% of the prison population respectively. So, 11.9% of the US prison population is incarcerated for rape and/or "other sex" crimes. Obviously, not every rape incident and not every conviction for "other sex" crimes is related to underage victims, but pedophilia is not actually a crime, so you are not charged with pedophilia but are instead charged with rape, statutory rape, child pornography, sex with a minor, etc.

Next, let's look at the percentages of religious belief for the US prison population. http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/To...risons.pdf

50.6% claim protestant (since you don't seem to think Catholic priest pedophilia counts, we will negate their 14%, although that 14% is not strictly clergy). Compare that with 10.6% of the population as nonreligious or no affiliation.

So, the first part is important because we can assume that the same percentages apply to that population (meaning 50.6% of sex offenders and rapists would also be protestants while 10.6% would be considered nonreligious or no affiliation). Meaning 81,365 inmates in US prisons that are convicted of sex crimes, are protestant. Compared to 17,045 who are not religious or not affiliated.

How do the statistics of religious belief compare with the general population? That is to say, are the populations of protestants and nonreligious/no affiliation in prison equal to that of the general population?
http://religions.pewforum.org/reports


General population claiming protestant = 51.3%
General population claiming no affiliation = 16.1% (Some polls have this as high as 19%, but we will stick with this)

So, is the prison population representative of the general population with respect to religious affiliation?

I am going to assume a standard error of 1% in order to calculate the p-values to figure this out. The technique is to do a 2 sample t-test for the protestant numbers (using the above percentages and the US pop and the US prison pop)

For protestants, we get a p-value of 0.313
For the nones, we get a p-value of 0.00005

What that means is that statistically, there is no difference between the protestant populations and there is a difference between the nones. So, there is just as many protestants in prison as one would expect in our population, but fewer nones that should be expected. Indicating that a protestant is no more or less likely that the average person to be incarcerated, while a person claiming "none" is less likely to be incarcerated.

This further indicates that the probability that those that are guilty of sex related crimes against minors are probably well represented at 50.6% of those convicted of such crimes. Meaning that there are indeed plenty of sex criminals who are christians.

It is also important to note that the category of "none" includes atheists, agnostics, and those who are just not affiliated with a particular religion. But the prison numbers don't give percent saying atheist while the US population seems to be somewhere around 5% based off of more recent numbers but 1.6% according to PEW use the title of 'atheist' (if we use the 'secular unaffiliated' category for the PEW forums numbers, we get just over 6%). What that means is that the percentage of people actually claiming to be atheists in prison are probably lower too, but no numbers on that makes it more difficult to measure.

In general, it would seem that not being affiliated with a religion, means that the probability of incarceration for any crime is statistically less likely. While being religious means you are either equally likely, or more likely.


All that to basically say that your sample set of "hundreds" is apparently not representative of prison populations, as the numbers don't lie.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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