Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
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21-11-2016, 01:41 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 01:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(20-11-2016 03:22 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The reason that 90% of it is unique to John is that it took a kernel from the original story (Mark) and added a bunch of the word-of-mouth legends no doubt being told among the early church, "improving" on the Legend of Jesus.

No that's not the reason. The reason is that the primary Johannine source is not common to any of the synoptics. Mark or M or Q or L or a combination thereof did not form the basis, the kernel of the gospel of John - it was formed around a different narrative.

How come John needs a mystery source to explain it? Why can't John just be the one fan-fiction project that was successful?

You know, like this piece of dreck.

[Image: Fifty-Shades-Grey.jpg]

^ This started as Twilight fan-fiction written out on a Blackberry... ^

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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21-11-2016, 02:54 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 01:41 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 01:02 AM)Aractus Wrote:  No that's not the reason. The reason is that the primary Johannine source is not common to any of the synoptics. Mark or M or Q or L or a combination thereof did not form the basis, the kernel of the gospel of John - it was formed around a different narrative.

How come John needs a mystery source to explain it? Why can't John just be the one fan-fiction project that was successful?

You know, like this piece of dreck.

[Image: Fifty-Shades-Grey.jpg]

^ This started as Twilight fan-fiction written out on a Blackberry... ^

What stops this 'different' narrative from being about John the Baptist? There was no consensus among early Christians on whether it was Jesus or John who was the Christ. Indeed you'll find that Jesus and John the Baptist share many similarities.
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21-11-2016, 03:52 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(20-11-2016 07:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No they don't. They cannot both be true. Watch the Pauline lecture of Martin I linked to.
http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rl.../lecture-5

I'm not watching a lecture - if you want to make an argument make it here. I have read it for myself out of an un-annotated Bible and I could see clearly they line up. What you are saying is that I should not believe my own two eyes and have not provided a reason why.

As for your fallacy about them being "true" that's a different matter. I obviously view Acts as less accurate than the Epistles of Paul...

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21-11-2016, 05:57 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
Aractus,

You seem stuck on the idea that what was written down in each Gospel required a specific, written source, rather than being an amalgamation of scroll or letter fragments and/or common church-group stories. The fact that the phrasing is very similar is not necessarily indicative of a written source. For instance: if my little Cajun village told the story of Evangeline, you would expect to hear various versions but with many similar (identical) passages, due to the nature of poetic recitation. When Longfellow (not a Cajun, so he got a bit of our history wrong-- yet we still refer to his work because it's about us) finally wrote it down, say, then it would be codified into a "permanent" form. In the case of the story of Jesus, there was already a written version that informed the various early churches, and clearly a bit of "legend-building" in the form that reached the author of John. So he took the kernels of what he already knew (the parts that could not be readily altered) and added the other legends he was hearing to the written narrative-- in this particular case, a nearly 90% "original" fluff material, making Jesus more divine and more magical, to fit the theological perspective of that church/region.

That variant (magic God-Jesus) wound up being the direction Christianity took over time, of course. My point is that you seem to imagine faithful copyists of the medieval monk-scribe type, doing this work, when the original work was likely nothing like that... more like "fan fiction", as EK put it, written down by people not intending to commit Pious Fraud, but doing so nevertheless, with the best of intentions.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-11-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 03:52 AM)Aractus Wrote:  I'm not watching a lecture ...

So you will disregard a lecture from an accredited biblical history scholar, from a prestigious university in favor of a random poster on an internet forum?

I'm not suggesting that one must watch every youtube rant posted on a forum, but this one does seem to be legitimate.

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21-11-2016, 09:26 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2016 09:29 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 03:52 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(20-11-2016 07:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No they don't. They cannot both be true. Watch the Pauline lecture of Martin I linked to.
http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rl.../lecture-5

I'm not watching a lecture - if you want to make an argument make it here. I have read it for myself out of an un-annotated Bible and I could see clearly they line up. What you are saying is that I should not believe my own two eyes and have not provided a reason why.

As for your fallacy about them being "true" that's a different matter. I obviously view Acts as less accurate than the Epistles of Paul...

They don't "line up" and you're dead wrong.
I could care less if you continue to make a fool of yourself.
It's not even "difficult".
In Galatians he says he was absent from Jerusalem for years and unknown *by sight* to the Jerusalem community.
In Acts it says he was there many times, and well known to them.
I see you are unable to read. For a second there I actually thought you knew what you were talking about. I see you have no clue.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-11-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They don't "line up" and you're dead wrong.
I could care less if you continue to make a fool of yourself.
It's not even "difficult".
In Galatians he says he was absent from Jerusalem for years and unknown *by sight* to the Jerusalem community.
In Acts it says he was there many times, and well known to them.
I see you are unable to read. For a second there I actually thought you knew what you were talking about. I see you have no clue.

That's irrelevant - Acts categorises Paul differently as well. It doesn't say that Paul goes to Jerusalem many times in Acts, it says he stays in Antioch for many years, and is fearful of Jerusalem because his life was threatened. That is consistent with the account in Galatians. They don't need to be a perfect fit, and nor would we expect them to be especially as Luke is writing Acts after Paul has died, and does not have first-hand knowledge of the events, and the author may not have even known Paul personally.

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21-11-2016, 10:21 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2016 11:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(21-11-2016 10:10 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 09:26 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They don't "line up" and you're dead wrong.
I could care less if you continue to make a fool of yourself.
It's not even "difficult".
In Galatians he says he was absent from Jerusalem for years and unknown *by sight* to the Jerusalem community.
In Acts it says he was there many times, and well known to them.
I see you are unable to read. For a second there I actually thought you knew what you were talking about. I see you have no clue.

That's irrelevant - Acts categorises Paul differently as well. It doesn't say that Paul goes to Jerusalem many times in Acts, it says he stays in Antioch for many years, and is fearful of Jerusalem because his life was threatened. That is consistent with the account in Galatians. They don't need to be a perfect fit, and nor would we expect them to be especially as Luke is writing Acts after Paul has died, and does not have first-hand knowledge of the events, and the author may not have even known Paul personally.

Totally WRONG. Totally.

In Acts it says he was there (in Jerusalem) 5 (FIVE) times. Five.
And it recounts his meeting with the entire community, multiple times, and they all knew him.

In Galatians he declares "Before God, I do NOT LIE".

Galatians 1:15 - 20
"But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being.
I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days.
I saw none of the other apostles--only James, the Lord's brother.

I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie."

The 5 times where he is said to know the entire community, and his OWN statements are totally irreconcilable. Totally. They cannot BOTH be true.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-11-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
(20-11-2016 10:43 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 01:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  We're talking about a magical being here, why couldn't God just write the entire Bible on his own and make it freely available in every language to every human so they can all be saved?
♫Why'd you pick such a strange place in such a strange time?
Israel in 4 BC had no mass communications!♫



OHgodfuckingdamnit.

I guess we know what I'ma be watching tonight. AGAIN. Dodgy


Judas is the best thing about the entire story - they should have called it Judas Superstar or maybe Super Judas! He's clearly the hero. Shy

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21-11-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: Why didn't Jesus write the New Testament?
Because he didn't exist? Rolleyes
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