Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
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23-08-2016, 07:33 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 07:19 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The Goddess of Irony has blessed this thread.
You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

Oh, wait...
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23-08-2016, 09:04 AM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2016 09:10 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 04:45 AM)theBorg Wrote:  "God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence... how wrong it is to use God as a stop-gap for the incompleteness of our knowledge. (Wikipedia 2016).

Theorem: it is wiser to let the God in the ship's hold gap, until the secular science will find the secular stop-gap. Proof: "it is just obvious." More is here:

But while the "white spot" or the “gap” (the gap in the secular view of the world) is not closed by the secular science, let the gap be closed by the True God Himself. If is needed, the God will make the additional room for the secular science. But why to tear the God from all the white spots? Otherwise our society (like a ship) will sink in the "sin-deeds-sea" due to huge ugly holes in the knowledge!

.... well that was remarkably incoherent, even by Borg's usual standards. Which is.... almost impressive. Weeping

...

Let's take a one-time example: Cancer.

Once upon a time, people didn't know what caused cancer. So they said that God was doing it to punish people, or maybe angels and demons that were part of the Christian cosmology were involved. They argued over it quite a bit. Some of them thought that prayer would fix it, but the results of that never really showed much improvement in side-by-side comparisons with not-praying.

For as long as people thought that God (or some other supernatural element) caused cancer, they had no motivation to look for the actual answer.

Now we know. Cancer is caused by cells multiplying out of control. The cause of THAT varies with the type of cancer, but is usually the result of some form of radiation- or chemical-induced damage to the genome, or ticking time bombs in our genes.

The REASON we know this is that various researchers ignored the god-of-the-gaps nonsense and went looking for an actual answer. Which, shock of all shocks, was not God.

As a consequence, we have many treatments and even a few cures for cancer, as well as means of early detection, risk assessment, and preventative measures. While imperfect, these are often life-saving.

A couple other examples:

We stopped believing that weather was caused by God and started considering if it was the result of natural forces. By charting, mapping, and monitoring those forces, we can predict weather up to a few weeks in advance. This allows us to grow more food to feed more people, and also get people out of the way of hurricanes.

We stopped believing that the stars and the planets in the heavens moved by God's will, and instead started considering that they moved by natural forces. As a result we have a far more accurate and thorough model of the solar system and know pretty much exactly how it will behave. This has allowed us to put communication satellites in place, with a host of applications from coordinating life-saving search-and-rescue operations to letting you connect to our forum from halfway around the world to troll us. Also, it allows us to tell if a giant asteroid is heading towards Earth and gives us the means of diverting it.

I could go on. And on. And on. But the moral of all these stories is the same.

tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.
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23-08-2016, 09:09 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 09:04 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.

Indeed. Playing the "Goddidit" game, crowing "It's a miracle!" instead of properly investigating anomalous results, and other god-besotted fatalism, is potentially lethal and always unhelpful in getting to the bottom of things.
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23-08-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 09:04 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 04:45 AM)theBorg Wrote:  "God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence... how wrong it is to use God as a stop-gap for the incompleteness of our knowledge. (Wikipedia 2016).

Theorem: it is wiser to let the God in the ship's hold gap, until the secular science will find the secular stop-gap. Proof: "it is just obvious." More is here:

But while the "white spot" or the “gap” (the gap in the secular view of the world) is not closed by the secular science, let the gap be closed by the True God Himself. If is needed, the God will make the additional room for the secular science. But why to tear the God from all the white spots? Otherwise our society (like a ship) will sink in the "sin-deeds-sea" due to huge ugly holes in the knowledge!

.... well that was remarkably incoherent, even by Borg's usual standards. Which is.... almost impressive. Weeping

...

Let's take a one-time example: Cancer.

Once upon a time, people didn't know what caused cancer. So they said that God was doing it to punish people, or maybe angels and demons that were part of the Christian cosmology were involved. They argued over it quite a bit. Some of them thought that prayer would fix it, but the results of that never really showed much improvement in side-by-side comparisons with not-praying.

For as long as people thought that God (or some other supernatural element) caused cancer, they had no motivation to look for the actual answer.

Now we know. Cancer is caused by cells multiplying out of control. The cause of THAT varies with the type of cancer, but is usually the result of some form of radiation- or chemical-induced damage to the genome, or ticking time bombs in our genes.

The REASON we know this is that various researchers ignored the god-of-the-gaps nonsense and went looking for an actual answer. Which, shock of all shocks, was not God.

As a consequence, we have many treatments and even a few cures for cancer, as well as means of early detection, risk assessment, and preventative measures. While imperfect, these are often life-saving.

A couple other examples:

We stopped believing that weather was caused by God and started considering if it was the result of natural forces. By charting, mapping, and monitoring those forces, we can predict weather up to a few weeks in advance. This allows us to grow more food to feed more people, and also get people out of the way of hurricanes.

We stopped believing that the stars and the planets in the heavens moved by God's will, and instead started considering that they moved by natural forces. As a result we have a far more accurate and thorough model of the solar system and know pretty much exactly how it will behave. This has allowed us to put communication satellites in place, with a host of applications from coordinating life-saving search-and-rescue operations to letting you connect to our forum from halfway around the world to troll us. Also, it allows us to tell if a giant asteroid is heading towards Earth and gives us the means of diverting it.

I could go on. And on. And on. But the moral of all these stories is the same.

tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.

^ This is why I take my hat off to you Reltzik. Your patience and willingness to expound on a facepalming post in a balanced, well thought out response is admirable and elucidating. Bowing

I was about to type in response to theBorg: “You are a stupid twit”. But now I’ll just keep that to myself. Tongue

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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23-08-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 04:45 AM)theBorg Wrote:  "God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence... how wrong it is to use God as a stop-gap for the incompleteness of our knowledge. (Wikipedia 2016).

Theorem: it is wiser to let the God in the ship's hold gap, until the secular science will find the secular stop-gap. Proof: "it is just obvious." More is here:

But while the "white spot" or the “gap” (the gap in the secular view of the world) is not closed by the secular science, let the gap be closed by the True God Himself. If is needed, the God will make the additional room for the secular science. But why to tear the God from all the white spots? Otherwise our society (like a ship) will sink in the "sin-deeds-sea" due to huge ugly holes in the knowledge!

I would like to fit the gaps in knowledge with pink unicorns! And i am not ready for any compromises on that!
What do we do now? How do we resolve our differences?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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23-08-2016, 09:28 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 09:17 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 09:04 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  .... well that was remarkably incoherent, even by Borg's usual standards. Which is.... almost impressive. Weeping

...

Let's take a one-time example: Cancer.

Once upon a time, people didn't know what caused cancer. So they said that God was doing it to punish people, or maybe angels and demons that were part of the Christian cosmology were involved. They argued over it quite a bit. Some of them thought that prayer would fix it, but the results of that never really showed much improvement in side-by-side comparisons with not-praying.

For as long as people thought that God (or some other supernatural element) caused cancer, they had no motivation to look for the actual answer.

Now we know. Cancer is caused by cells multiplying out of control. The cause of THAT varies with the type of cancer, but is usually the result of some form of radiation- or chemical-induced damage to the genome, or ticking time bombs in our genes.

The REASON we know this is that various researchers ignored the god-of-the-gaps nonsense and went looking for an actual answer. Which, shock of all shocks, was not God.

As a consequence, we have many treatments and even a few cures for cancer, as well as means of early detection, risk assessment, and preventative measures. While imperfect, these are often life-saving.

A couple other examples:

We stopped believing that weather was caused by God and started considering if it was the result of natural forces. By charting, mapping, and monitoring those forces, we can predict weather up to a few weeks in advance. This allows us to grow more food to feed more people, and also get people out of the way of hurricanes.

We stopped believing that the stars and the planets in the heavens moved by God's will, and instead started considering that they moved by natural forces. As a result we have a far more accurate and thorough model of the solar system and know pretty much exactly how it will behave. This has allowed us to put communication satellites in place, with a host of applications from coordinating life-saving search-and-rescue operations to letting you connect to our forum from halfway around the world to troll us. Also, it allows us to tell if a giant asteroid is heading towards Earth and gives us the means of diverting it.

I could go on. And on. And on. But the moral of all these stories is the same.

tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.

^ This is why I take my hat off to you Reltzik. Your patience and willingness to expound on a facepalming post in a balanced, well thought out response is admirable and elucidating. Bowing

I was about to type in response to theBorg: “You are a stupid twit”. But now I’ll just keep that to myself. Tongue

On the flipside, I didn't even make it past the first sentence before I was like fuck this, I've got more important things to do like watch cat videos.

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23-08-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
I want to agree with you, Yakherder, but I think something more sinister is going on here.

Every one of these thread titles reads like a chapter in a book of anti-atheist apologetics, likely put out by his Orthodox church in another language, and translated by our faithful (heh) OP into English so he can "show those atheists!"

Note the title of this particular thread, "Why [do] disbelievers disbelieve? They believe in the god of the gaps." It's a question-and-answer not to us, but to him, from the author trying to convince the flock that they remain intellectually superior to the damned heathens.

Of course, the arguments themselves are bunkum, and we thoughtfully explain to him why they are bunkum. But he cannot listen; he has already accepted what the book tells him we think... and the sad part is, he really thinks at some level that this "deepity" which blows his little, indoctrinated mind will cause thinking people to pause and accept Orthodoxy.

Even at my most fanatically Christian, as a Southern Baptist fundamentalist "Bible-thumping, pew-jumping, Jesus loving, devil shoving, red hot, blood bought, soul redeeming, shouting, screaming, overcoming, child of God!" (Yes, we really used to say that), I'd like to think I would never have tried to convince people directly from the books of apologetics I was spoon-fed throughout my youthful "education" in theology. (I use quotation marks to indicate irony.)

TL;dr - He's reading from a book or pamphlet called "How to beat those stupid atheists", or something similar. We should be much more insulted than we are.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-08-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
Something being unknown isn't surely an "ugly" hole i knowledge.

There is beauty in the unknown being unknown.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-08-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 04:45 AM)theBorg Wrote:  "God of the gaps" is a term used to describe observations of theological perspectives in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence... how wrong it is to use God as a stop-gap for the incompleteness of our knowledge. (Wikipedia 2016).

Theorem: it is wiser to let the God in the ship's hold gap, until the secular science will find the secular stop-gap. Proof: "it is just obvious." More is here:

But while the "white spot" or the “gap” (the gap in the secular view of the world) is not closed by the secular science, let the gap be closed by the True God Himself. If is needed, the God will make the additional room for the secular science. But why to tear the God from all the white spots? Otherwise our society (like a ship) will sink in the "sin-deeds-sea" due to huge ugly holes in the knowledge!
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23-08-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 06:52 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  fuck, stop posting new threads of nonsense. Stick with the crap you've already spewed.

Standard practice for theotrolls.

Can't win an argument? Start a new one. Run out of CaP crap? Start a new set. Run out of knowledge? Run away and start a new thread. Get proved wrong? Ignore it and divert the thread.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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