Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
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24-08-2016, 09:33 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2016 06:04 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(24-08-2016 09:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 09:04 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  .... well that was remarkably incoherent, even by Borg's usual standards. Which is.... almost impressive. Weeping

...

Let's take a one-time example: Cancer.

Once upon a time, people didn't know what caused cancer. So they said that God was doing it to punish people, or maybe angels and demons that were part of the Christian cosmology were involved. They argued over it quite a bit. Some of them thought that prayer would fix it, but the results of that never really showed much improvement in side-by-side comparisons with not-praying.

For as long as people thought that God (or some other supernatural element) caused cancer, they had no motivation to look for the actual answer.

Now we know. Cancer is caused by cells multiplying out of control. The cause of THAT varies with the type of cancer, but is usually the result of some form of radiation- or chemical-induced damage to the genome, or ticking time bombs in our genes.

The REASON we know this is that various researchers ignored the god-of-the-gaps nonsense and went looking for an actual answer. Which, shock of all shocks, was not God.

As a consequence, we have many treatments and even a few cures for cancer, as well as means of early detection, risk assessment, and preventative measures. While imperfect, these are often life-saving.

A couple other examples:

We stopped believing that weather was caused by God and started considering if it was the result of natural forces. By charting, mapping, and monitoring those forces, we can predict weather up to a few weeks in advance. This allows us to grow more food to feed more people, and also get people out of the way of hurricanes.

We stopped believing that the stars and the planets in the heavens moved by God's will, and instead started considering that they moved by natural forces. As a result we have a far more accurate and thorough model of the solar system and know pretty much exactly how it will behave. This has allowed us to put communication satellites in place, with a host of applications from coordinating life-saving search-and-rescue operations to letting you connect to our forum from halfway around the world to troll us. Also, it allows us to tell if a giant asteroid is heading towards Earth and gives us the means of diverting it.

I could go on. And on. And on. But the moral of all these stories is the same.

tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.
Ah oh... More people trying to claim that nature is somehow not a product of GOD.

Retarded assed doctors wanted to amputate my arm over a tumor all while insisting that it wasn't caused from trauma... Science is thankfully still in its youth. You did make a good point about people giving up on solutions to problems because they don't understand them though. That's sorta like fundamentalist or literalists not receiving medical attention because they believe God will intervene. Who's to say the competent doctor isn't God's intervention?

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25-08-2016, 08:43 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 04:45 AM)theBorg Wrote:  Proof: "it is just obvious."

It's not gaps in knowledge that bug me, it's gaps in reasoning... Facepalm

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25-08-2016, 09:16 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(24-08-2016 09:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 09:04 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  .... well that was remarkably incoherent, even by Borg's usual standards. Which is.... almost impressive. Weeping

...

Let's take a one-time example: Cancer.

Once upon a time, people didn't know what caused cancer. So they said that God was doing it to punish people, or maybe angels and demons that were part of the Christian cosmology were involved. They argued over it quite a bit. Some of them thought that prayer would fix it, but the results of that never really showed much improvement in side-by-side comparisons with not-praying.

For as long as people thought that God (or some other supernatural element) caused cancer, they had no motivation to look for the actual answer.

Now we know. Cancer is caused by cells multiplying out of control. The cause of THAT varies with the type of cancer, but is usually the result of some form of radiation- or chemical-induced damage to the genome, or ticking time bombs in our genes.

The REASON we know this is that various researchers ignored the god-of-the-gaps nonsense and went looking for an actual answer. Which, shock of all shocks, was not God.

As a consequence, we have many treatments and even a few cures for cancer, as well as means of early detection, risk assessment, and preventative measures. While imperfect, these are often life-saving.

A couple other examples:

We stopped believing that weather was caused by God and started considering if it was the result of natural forces. By charting, mapping, and monitoring those forces, we can predict weather up to a few weeks in advance. This allows us to grow more food to feed more people, and also get people out of the way of hurricanes.

We stopped believing that the stars and the planets in the heavens moved by God's will, and instead started considering that they moved by natural forces. As a result we have a far more accurate and thorough model of the solar system and know pretty much exactly how it will behave. This has allowed us to put communication satellites in place, with a host of applications from coordinating life-saving search-and-rescue operations to letting you connect to our forum from halfway around the world to troll us. Also, it allows us to tell if a giant asteroid is heading towards Earth and gives us the means of diverting it.

I could go on. And on. And on. But the moral of all these stories is the same.

tl;dr: Abandoning god-of-the-gaps reasoning and looking for real answers SAVES LOTS AND LOTS OF LIVES. Sticking with god-of-the-gaps reasoning CONSIGNS COUNTLESS PEOPLE TO DEATH.
Ah oh... More people trying to claim that nature is somehow not a product of GOD.

Retarded assed doctors wanted to amputate my arm over a tumor all while insisting that it wasn't caused from trauma... Science is thankfully still in its youth. You did make a good point about people giving up on solutions to problems because they don't understand them though. That's sorta like fundamentalist or literalists not receiving medical attention because they believe God will intervene. Who's to say the competent doctor isn't God's intervention?

Peace

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So your god first sent you an incompetent doctor...and then he saved you from that same doctor? Awe-inspiring...simply awe-inspiring the lengths you will go to defend your god.

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25-08-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(24-08-2016 09:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Who's to say the competent doctor isn't God's intervention?

I think this question is lurking in the freewill category.

If your belief was true.

Then free will would be non-existent. God would have manipulated the Dr.'s life so that he would have became a Dr. the choices and life experiences that Dr. would have made were not of his own making. Those 8 years of college and 7 years of residence training. Would have been more or less a waste of time since god was simple going to use him as a tool to heal people anyway. Also not to forget the decades of other dr.'s surgeons and medical professionals that learned threw trial, study and error, to better improve the methods of healing. The technician that, and engineers that devolved the tools that would be used in the procedures also would have and their lives manipulated so that, that doc would be able to preform that operation or medical care. Or what about the thousands upon thousands of years that, that sort of care was unavailable. What was your god doing that time? Picking lint out of his belly button?

Or maybe freewill is exsistant. And god just forced the man to doing that job he was probably going to do anyway. So Gods power is he can manipulate a persons to preform a procedure he's done many times over before? Not every operation is a success. and not every person is a nonbeliever.

What it comes down to is your biased. If the operation was a success. God works miracles! If the operation saved the life but the person (using your example) lost his arm to the tumor. God works in mystery's ways. But if the operation was a failer and the tumor continued to grow killing the person. "Well god wanted him in heaven."

Cancer currently doesn't have a cure. But I know that as soon as they do believers are going to affiliate it to god working miracles. Even thou billions of dollars and man hours have been spent trying to developed one. If your god has the knowledge to cure cancer. And he has the ability to manipulate peoples lives what's preventing him from manipulating a biologist from making a cancer cure? Why not work that magic on abolishing wars? Street crimes? Oh because these are mans fault I see. God can manipulate people to give someone aspirin but can't manipulate people to not shoot an unarmed kid?

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25-08-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(25-08-2016 09:17 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(24-08-2016 09:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Who's to say the competent doctor isn't God's intervention?

What it comes down to is your biased. If the operation was a success. God works miracles! If the operation saved the life but the person (using your example) lost his arm to the tumor. God works in mystery's ways. But if the operation was a failer and the tumor continued to grow killing the person. "Well god wanted him in heaven."

Bingo, it's a bullshit scenario where God wins no matter what. Just like the whole prayers thing, it works because the answer is either yes, no, or maybe/wait. No matter what happens you can give God the credit. And in real life, if a person sat by and watched someone die and did nothing, there's not one sane person who would say "Yeah that dude is a good guy".

It's so frustrating how these people give God ALL the credit and NONE of the blame, even though he's all powerful.
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25-08-2016, 08:24 PM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(24-08-2016 09:13 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Who's to say the competent doctor isn't God's intervention?

Your "deity" is indistinguishable from natural events and no more worthy of worship than a drop of dew. You might as well pray to a rainbow or avalanche for all the good it's doing you.

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25-08-2016, 08:26 PM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
Step 1: Find gap in knowledge
Step 2: Insert god
Step 3: Science closes this particular gap. Oops. Science killed your god. Again.
Step 4: Get a new god

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25-08-2016, 10:29 PM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(23-08-2016 07:06 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  So... it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?
Why it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?

See: the Christian God is needed to stop the violence and terrorism. The Christian God teaches to love your personal enemy. The fact, what the killing can be allowed, does not take away the fact, that killing is unwanted: the Christian God does not like the killings.

Therefore, when child of the disbeliever asks: "how the Big Bang came about?" The disbeliever should answer: "I am follower of the secular science, not the theology. But because the secular science has not explained this wonder of singularity, I advise you to acknowledge the theology point of view."
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25-08-2016, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2016 11:24 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(25-08-2016 10:29 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 07:06 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  So... it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?
Why it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?

See: the Christian God is needed to stop the violence and terrorism. The Christian God teaches to love your personal enemy.

Here's a (very partial) list of violence and terrorism done in the name of the Christian God.

* The 30 Years War.
* Mutual anathema by a great many denominations, resulting in heresy trials, wars, and death.
* Nearly 20 centuries of the doctrine of Jewish Deicide, which if I'm not mistaken is still part of the Eastern Orthodox litany.
* The Lord's Resistance Army
* The butchery of the Crusades
* Worldwide colonialist genocide, often with priests leading the way.
* Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot.
* The Irish Troubles (lots of terrorism there).
* The Klu Klux Klan

Christianity is not required to stop violence and terrorism, because Christianity is not the only thing to teach peace and acceptance of neighbors, nor (fortunately) is it anywhere near the best at doing so. Here is, so far as I'm able to determine, a COMPLETE list of terrorist acts performed in the name of secular humanism.

*









Remember when I said earlier that it helps if the seeds you are sowing don't sprout into trees that bear poisonous fruit? Well... Christianity's fruit seems to have proven pretty darn poisonous.
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26-08-2016, 12:53 AM
RE: Why disbelievers believe? They believe in so called “God of the gaps”.
(25-08-2016 10:29 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(23-08-2016 07:06 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  So... it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?
Why it is wiser to assume we know the answers to things we don't know rather than admit we don't until we do?

bla bla bla

"Assuming" to know something you dont is a paraphrase for lying.
So please explain again, in simple terms, why lying is *wise*.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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