Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
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19-01-2014, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2014 02:26 PM by GirlyMan.)
Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
In a recent discussion with my Baptist mother continuing her quixotic effort to save my sorry ass, I brought up that Karl Barth, one of the most prominent and prolific theologians ever, put forth the proposition that Jesus was the embodiment of both God's election of all of humanity and God's rejection of human sin. It doesn't matter what I or anybody else believes, we're all going to heaven. To think otherwise trivializes The Christ. She told me to stop reading manifestos (as if Barth's Church Dogmatics was written by the unabomber or something) and accept The Word and The Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. I says "But but, I have. I don't think you have."

I don't understand why Christians seem to have such a problem with the concepts of universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement. I mean they invented them for fuck's sake.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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19-01-2014, 02:30 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonemen
(19-01-2014 02:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... I don't understand why Christians seem to have such a problem with the concepts of universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement. I mean they invented them for fuck's sake.

Because it takes them out of it.

Almost all of them are convinced that the god they believe in, requires their services to one degree or another.

That's the short answer.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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19-01-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:30 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 02:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... I don't understand why Christians seem to have such a problem with the concepts of universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement. I mean they invented them for fuck's sake.

Because it takes them out of it.

Almost all of them are convinced that the god they believe in, requires their services to one degree or another.

That's the short answer.

Ah, so it's an ego thing. Should've been able to pick up on that on my own 'cause that's something I can understand. Thumbsup

Not sure whether or not I'm gonna play that card against my mum. Feels mean. But thanks!

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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19-01-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
If you're already sorted you got no motive to hand over your cash. Gotta make sure you realise you're a worthless tit who should count himself extremely lucky that God would even deign to notice him, much less die for him. If you don't pay up, after all what God done for you, then you really are an ungrateful bastard just like those atheists over there and definitely deserve to have your arse kicked all the way to the hot place.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-01-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ...Not sure whether or not I'm gonna play that card against my mum. Feels mean. But thanks!
lol
I hear you. That can be a tough needle to thread, the closer someone is.
Thumbsup

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19-01-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  If you're already sorted you got no motive to hand over your cash. Gotta make sure you realise you're a worthless tit who should count himself extremely lucky that God would even deign to notice him, much less die for him. If you don't pay up, after all what God done for you, then you really are an ungrateful bastard just like those atheists over there and definitely deserve to have your arse kicked all the way to the hot place.

Nailed it. NPI. Thumbsup

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19-01-2014, 04:56 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  If you're already sorted you got no motive to hand over your cash. Gotta make sure you realise you're a worthless tit who should count himself extremely lucky that God would even deign to notice him, much less die for him. If you don't pay up, after all what God done for you, then you really are an ungrateful bastard just like those atheists over there and definitely deserve to have your arse kicked all the way to the hot place.

You and Kestrel have nailed it!

PS Jeebus! I wrote this b4 I read the above. Great minds think alike! LOL
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20-01-2014, 05:12 AM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
Kestrel, is this close to what you believe? I don't know why, but I thought you were a Baptist.
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20-01-2014, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2014 08:57 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
"The mature and well-balanced man, standing firmly with both feet on the earth, who has never been lamed and broken and half-blinded by the scandal of life, is as such the existentially godless man.”
― Barth, Epistle to the Romans

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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20-01-2014, 08:09 AM
RE: y do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 05:12 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Kestrel, is this close to what you believe? I don't know why, but I thought you were a Baptist.
I'll put it this way: to me, even Universalists don't go far enough.

You may have gotten the baptist impression from my post to KC in the Ask a theist! thread.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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