Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
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20-01-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 08:09 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 05:12 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Kestrel, is this close to what you believe? I don't know why, but I thought you were a Baptist.
I'll put it this way: to me, even Universalists don't go far enough.

You may have gotten the baptist impression from my post to KC in the Ask a theist! thread.

I'm very intrigued--do you care to share your beliefs, perhaps in another thread or in a pm? No judgement from me, just curious.
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20-01-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
Wait... Kestrel... you're a dirty C-word too?

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20-01-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: y do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 10:00 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wait... Kestrel... you're a dirty C-word too?
No doubt I've been called plenty of c-word variants over the years, but I'll take your meaning as Calvinist.

As I understand Calvinism, which is to say I've never deeply looked into it but feel I have a general outline understanding, then yes. It's fair to say that generally.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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20-01-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: y do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 08:58 AM)jaxx Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 08:09 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  I'll put it this way: to me, even Universalists don't go far enough.

You may have gotten the baptist impression from my post to KC in the Ask a theist! thread.

I'm very intrigued--do you care to share your beliefs, perhaps in another thread or in a pm? No judgement from me, just curious.
Judgement isn't a concern. No worries there. I'll work on a way to start a thread that doesn't come across as "horn blowing" and I'll happily discuss it.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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20-01-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ...
I don't understand why Christians seem to have such a problem with the concepts of universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement. I mean they invented them for fuck's sake.

Good answers above but perhaps also...

Me saint... you scumbag. Me better than you! Jesus loves me more.
Go to fucking hell where you belong.

Everyone going to heaven... not fair ... Sadcryface2 Sadcryface2 Sadcryface2

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20-01-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(19-01-2014 02:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  If you're already sorted you got no motive to hand over your cash. Gotta make sure you realise you're a worthless tit who should count himself extremely lucky that God would even deign to notice him, much less die for him. If you don't pay up, after all what God done for you, then you really are an ungrateful bastard just like those atheists over there and definitely deserve to have your arse kicked all the way to the hot place.

I think this can mostly be summed up that people want the world to be just (the just world hypothesis/falacy). They want the consequences of actions to make sense.

People get deeply offended when they see someone who didn't earn something get it anyway. There have been studies on this. If you have two people in an experiment, where one works and the other doesn't, the worker will hurt themselves to see that the non-worker isn't rewarded. If you offer the worker to either pay both of them $10 or to pay the worker $5 and nothing to the other person, a fair amount of people will accept the latter offer, even though it is a nominal decrease in pay for them.

At the end of the day, all the Christians who are "doing it right" are offended by the idea that other people get to get in for free.
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20-01-2014, 08:38 PM
RE: Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 11:25 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 08:58 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I'm very intrigued--do you care to share your beliefs, perhaps in another thread or in a pm? No judgement from me, just curious.
Judgement isn't a concern. No worries there. I'll work on a way to start a thread that doesn't come across as "horn blowing" and I'll happily discuss it.

Cool, look forward to it Smile
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20-01-2014, 10:33 PM
Why do Christians object to universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement?
(20-01-2014 11:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 02:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ...
I don't understand why Christians seem to have such a problem with the concepts of universal reconciliation and substitutionary atonement. I mean they invented them for fuck's sake.

Good answers above but perhaps also...

Me saint... you scumbag. Me better than you! Jesus loves me more.
Go to fucking hell where you belong.

Everyone going to heaven... not fair ... Sadcryface2 Sadcryface2 Sadcryface2

Fuck Heaven, no Meatland for you!

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