Why do Christians trust YHWH?
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20-02-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 01:34 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I've said this several times in various threads, but I'm going to give the topic its own thread, now.

So, according to the Bible, YHWH is the source of all of our morality.
No god is the source of Righteousness. The difference? morality is man's standard. Morality is always the lessor of two evils. Righteousness is absolute.

Quote: He tells us not to kill,
ah, no. The command is you shall not Murder. The difference between Murdering and killing another Human? Justification/Authorization. To murder to to kill with out being justified or authorized. So again the command is you shall not murder or kill without justification or authorization. so who can authorize death? God. so how can God muder if He is in a position to authorize death?

Quote:steal,
to steal is to take something that does not belong to you. With that in mind I ask what does not belong to God?

Quote:rape
The sins involved with rape are covered under sex being only permitted in marriage. God has not raped anyone.

Quote: lie,
There is no command that says thou shalt not lie.

It says you shall not give false witness against thy neighbor.

The difference? to give false witness against thy neighbor is to most likely will enslave, imprision, or be the cause of his death.

Quote:or covet,
If everything belongs to god what is their left to covet?

Quote:yet, he frequently breaks his own rules.
It's seems, that you really do not understand God's rules, so how is it that you can say He has broken them?


Quote:He's on record for murdering the crap out of lots of people. Even children! So, you ask an apologist "what the shit?" and they'll say something to the effect of "God has no moral imperative not to kill us" or "those rules are for us, not God" or "who are you to question the Almighty!?"
Or, my fav.. So what?
Death is not death. Death is our birth into eternity. Death is only death to those who only existance is completely dependant on this life.

Quote:Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time? He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him, and hey, who are we to question him? The apologetics are pretty clear on this.

So, how does a Christian trust any single word written in the Bible or allegedly said by God? Any traits they give him (like holding to his covenants) are all told to us... by God. How do we know he holds his covenants?
The same way we tell if anyone else in our lives has lied. We take their track record and compare it to what they claim. If there is a descrepency then that person/deity is a liar. If not then He is telling the truth.

Quote:So, Christians: how can you trust God?
Because the sum total of my life's experiences has told me so.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
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20-02-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Well, we know Drich is a Protestant, because they believe it says "murder" while Catholics believe it says "kill."

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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20-02-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Well, we also now know that Drich is neck deep in the soup of indoctrination, with a side of tunnel vision and cognitive dissonance. His obsession with this ask/knock nonsense is getting tired. Focus on this line spoken to a Canaanite woman who was asking for help for her sick daughter, from Jesus in Mathew 15: “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

Well she did ask.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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20-02-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 03:17 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Alpha,
Think about this. In Num. 31:15-18, it says (I'm repeating myself): “Have you allowed all the women to live?” (Moses) asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Doc

Alpha,
In the portion cited above, how did the Israelites know which women were virgins and which were not? Numbers 31 says that 32,000 virgins were reserved for the Israelites. That's thirty-two thousand. How many non-virgins died? And again, how did they know which ones were virgins?

The uplifting, positive message in this portion is...?

Doc
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20-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 04:08 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  The uplifting, positive message in this portion is...?

Doc

That God is OK with a bunch of scumbags getting really up close and personal with alot, and I mean alot of women/girls? The actual test for virginity is probably best left in the dark (could not have been pleasant)!

Unfortunately when you ask for feedback on such garbage found in their Holy Book, they run like vampires after you hit them with a bright light.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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20-02-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 01:00 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  All that is needed for abiogenesis to be (way) less absurd than your god, is to demonstrate that it is not impossible.

That has been done. Every step along the way has been shown to be possible. There is not a single step where scientists throw up their hands in frustration and claim, "can't explain this step, that must be the place where god stepped in". No magic is needed.

Scientists do not have to prove the exact way it occurred on earth for it to be the best explanation.

It's a red herring. Don't bother discussing abiogenesis in this thread. It has nothing to do with God not being trustworthy, and Alpha is trying to change the subject to something with which he feels more comfortable. Don't give in to this bullshit.
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20-02-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
We don't even have to worry about the positives and negatives. I think I outlined in my OP fairly well why YHWH isn't trustworthy.
  • YHWH tells us not to kill or lie.
  • YHWH kills.
  • Apologists tell us it's okay that YHWH kills because his rules are just for us or because he has no reason to follow his own rules.
  • Ergo, we have no reason to believe he doesn't lie.
That's it. It's that simple. Alpha's answer to this is "Well, I still believe he's telling the truth, just cuz", despite the fact that he has no reason to believe that.

YHWH can't be trusted. The Bible he ghost-wrote can't be trusted. Anything directly based on his religion can't be trusted.
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20-02-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 04:27 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  It's a red herring. Don't bother discussing abiogenesis in this thread. It has nothing to do with God not being trustworthy, and Alpha is trying to change the subject to something with which he feels more comfortable. Don't give in to this bullshit.

Yes, let's keep his nose to the grindstone.
Alpha, in the Numbers portion above, at what age were the girls not examined to prove that they were virgins or not? 1? 5? 10? 15?

I have a daughter, Alpha. I don't find this portion very uplifting.
Doc
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20-02-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 04:22 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 04:08 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  The uplifting, positive message in this portion is...?

Doc

That God is OK with a bunch of scumbags getting really up close and personal with alot, and I mean alot of women/girls? The actual test for virginity is probably best left in the dark (could not have been pleasant)!

Unfortunately when you ask for feedback on such garbage found in their Holy Book, they run like vampires after you hit them with a bright light.

Just FYI. There's no, repeat, no test for virginity. I'm surprised YHWH didn't know that.
Doc
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20-02-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(20-02-2014 03:02 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So your rejection of faith someone else doesn't hold is proof that your faith is factual?
Nope, not an argument I made.
Quote:We Don't Know =/= Faith is a false dilemma.

In the absence of sufficient evidence, the scientific response is to withhold judgement, not arbitrarily choose from one of 1,000's of Gods.
There's not sufficient evidence to prove abiogenesis, but typical (i.e. materialist) atheists necessarily believe in it as there's no other options.
Quote:You've chosen a God to believe in. Congratulations!

You've still presented no evidence to support the conclusion <My God Is The Creator>
That's not what this thread is about. That you go there indicates my argument has merit.

Why don't you guys just say, "Yes, I have a strong belief that abiogenesis occurred despite the lack of current evidence"? You know it's true for most of you. It's funny to watch the gymnastics you go to avoiding it.
Quote:Let alone Peer Reviewed evidence. Then again, you don't seem to understand what that means.
How so?
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