Why do Christians trust YHWH?
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19-02-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 03:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 01:34 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him,
Does Bible say this? I don't remember this statement. Does Bible have any claim that God can brake or brakes His promise /word?

I explained it in the OP:

(19-02-2014 01:34 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, according to the Bible, YHWH is the source of all of our morality. He tells us not to kill, steal, rape lie, or covet, yet, he frequently breaks his own rules. He's on record for murdering the crap out of lots of people. Even children! So, you ask an apologist "what the shit?" and they'll say something to the effect of "God has no moral imperative not to kill us" or "those rules are for us, not God" or "who are you to question the Almighty!?"

Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time? He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him, and hey, who are we to question him? The apologetics are pretty clear on this.

I'll break it down:
  • YHWH gives us rules to follow (including not killing or lying).
  • YHWH breaks his own rules (especially the no killing part).
  • Christian apologists give numerous reasons why this is okay that YHWH breaks his no-killing rule over and over.
  • ...so, how do you know he's not breaking his no lying rule?
The standard answers for why it's okay that he kills us can be applied to why it would be okay for him to lie. If you accept YHWH killing people and don't hold him accountable, you have no reason to trust him.
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19-02-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 03:47 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Who made the rules other then god if they are coming from him?
nobody. they(laws) always exist the same way as matter always exist. Nobody created laws and nobody created matter
(19-02-2014 03:47 PM)donotwant Wrote:  So there are 2 gods?
more than 2. there is no first god and there is no last god.

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19-02-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
Well now you invent some new religion.
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19-02-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 03:54 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I'll break it down:
  • YHWH gives us rules to follow (including not killing or lying).
  • YHWH breaks his own rules (especially the no killing part).
  • Christian apologists give numerous reasons why this is okay that YHWH breaks his no-killing rule over and over.
  • ...so, how do you know he's not breaking his no lying rule?
The standard answers for why it's okay that he kills us can be applied to why it would be okay for him to lie. If you accept YHWH killing people and don't hold him accountable, you have no reason to trust him.
Good argument.
This is my answer: true that God gave the law not to kill. But if you notice sometimes to kill is justifiable. Sometimes He says to kill. Sometimes to kill is not wrong.
So, He kills and He let us sometimes to kill.
But He never told us to lie. He never justified lie.
So, He doesn't lie. He tells us to be honest.
He kills sometimes and He let us to kill sometimes.

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19-02-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 04:02 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Well now you invent some new religion.
It calls LDS Doctrine(Mormonism) or Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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19-02-2014, 04:23 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
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19-02-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 04:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  Good argument.
This is my answer: true that God gave the law not to kill. But if you notice sometimes to kill is justifiable. Sometimes He says to kill. Sometimes to kill is not wrong.

He's on record for killing babies because he's mad at their parents. So, yeah, sometimes he kills when it's wrong.

Now, you can go on to tell me that I'm judging him with my human judgment and not his super-awesome God judgment (however that works)... but that's just playing into what I'm already saying.

You are making his murders just to justify them. How do you know he doesn't lie?


(19-02-2014 04:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, He kills and He let us sometimes to kill.
But He never told us to lie. He never justified lie.
So, He doesn't lie. He tells us to be honest.
He kills sometimes and He let us to kill sometimes.

You still haven't proven it. Just because someone tells you not to lie doesn't mean that he isn't capable of lying. All you've proven is "he told us not to lie", and nothing more. Any claim you make that he wouldn't/doesn't lie is seeded with the assumption that he doesn't lie.
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19-02-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 04:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(19-02-2014 03:54 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I'll break it down:
  • YHWH gives us rules to follow (including not killing or lying).
  • YHWH breaks his own rules (especially the no killing part).
  • Christian apologists give numerous reasons why this is okay that YHWH breaks his no-killing rule over and over.
  • ...so, how do you know he's not breaking his no lying rule?
The standard answers for why it's okay that he kills us can be applied to why it would be okay for him to lie. If you accept YHWH killing people and don't hold him accountable, you have no reason to trust him.
Good argument.
This is my answer: true that God gave the law not to kill. But if you notice sometimes to kill is justifiable. Sometimes He says to kill. Sometimes to kill is not wrong.
So, He kills and He let us sometimes to kill.
But He never told us to lie. He never justified lie.
So, He doesn't lie. He tells us to be honest.
He kills sometimes and He let us to kill sometimes.

Thanks once again for one of the most stupid posts. You must be deliberately trying to outdo yourself each time. Killing is justified but lying is not? It just hurts too much to type one more word on the subje..

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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19-02-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 03:17 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  How do you justify your faith in something so.. absurd?
I don't find it to be...absurd.
Quote: in normal life we have faith in things based on assessments of actual evidence.
Hardly. Few people make an objective analysis of actual evidence with regard to the most important things in life, like whom to marry or whether to have children. Same with less important choices. Didja see the ads in the Super Bowl? Most were selling a feeling and had little or no actual evidence that their product was better than the competition.
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19-02-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Why to Christians trust YHWH?
(19-02-2014 03:54 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Christian apologists give numerous reasons why this is okay that YHWH breaks his no-killing rule over and over.
Atheists frequently bitch that working on the Sabbath was a death penalty offense, so quit acting like the OT has a blanket "no-killing rule." You're either ignorant or dishonest.
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