Why do Christians trust the Bible?
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09-10-2014, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2014 12:16 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 10:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Nice post, Robby. I had written up a response to it but deleted it.

Why did you delete it?


(09-10-2014 10:40 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I dont think validity is the point. Most Christians view the bible as "guidance".

This may be more true than I'm giving it credit. It might be because so many of the Christians in my life who will talk about the Bible are literalist fundamentalists. Most of the Christians I interact with that are not tend not to bring the issue up. I know my wife believes the Bible was a book written by people who felt the need to write about their beliefs. She does not view this as a God-guided process.
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09-10-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 10:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hopefully this thread can hold up a little longer before the infestation of trolls start in.

Yes, because that sort of passive aggressive contribution is helpful.

yes, I'm well aware that this response of mine is not helping either

... this is my signature!
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09-10-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 12:12 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Why did you delete it?

Because I didn't feel like committing to the conversation, plus it wasn't anything that hasn't been discussed before by me with someone on TTA.

Also, Robby, because of this:

(09-10-2014 12:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yes, because that sort of passive aggressive contribution is helpful.

yes, I'm well aware that this response of mine is not helping either

This just goes to show that no matter how asinine, ridiculous, pointless, off-the-cuff, sporadic, empty, passive aggressive/aggressive, helpful or unhelpful my little posts may be, I'm always going to have someone
(cjlr as of late... he's created some weird post stalking thing for me and commenting on my posts ever since I refused to support a claim of mine because I didn't want to. Now, he just arbitrarily comments on all my asinine posts... not entirely sure why, though.
respond or create an issue that almost always further degrades the topic into passive aggressiveness or asininity.

To me, it's just not worth the effort... maybe if all the theist trolls went *poof* and the mindset of the forum had a fulcrum shift from "attack" to "discuss" there might be some good dialog to be had.

But as of now, as cjlr so astutely pointed out, I'm just here to initiate passive aggressiveness.

In fact, you can probably just ignore my posts because they have no substance in them whatsoever.

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09-10-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 12:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 12:12 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Why did you delete it?

Because I didn't feel like committing to the conversation, plus it wasn't anything that hasn't been discussed before by me with someone on TTA.

Also, Robby, because of this:

(09-10-2014 12:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yes, because that sort of passive aggressive contribution is helpful.

yes, I'm well aware that this response of mine is not helping either

This just goes to show that no matter how asinine, ridiculous, pointless, off-the-cuff, sporadic, empty, passive aggressive/aggressive, helpful or unhelpful my little posts may be, I'm always going to have someone
(cjlr as of late... he's created some weird post stalking thing for me and commenting on my posts ever since I refused to support a claim of mine because I didn't want to. Now, he just arbitrarily comments on all my asinine posts... not entirely sure why, though.
respond or create an issue that almost always further degrades the topic into passive aggressiveness or asininity.

To me, it's just not worth the effort... maybe if all the theist trolls went *poof* and the mindset of the forum had a fulcrum shift from "attack" to "discuss" there might be some good dialog to be had.

But as of now, as cjlr so astutely pointed out, I'm just here to initiate passive aggressiveness.

In fact, you can probably just ignore my posts because they have no substance in them whatsoever.

Why do people have to ruin things No I'm sure your post was brilliant and very insightful. I would have loved to read it.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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09-10-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 12:48 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Why do people have to ruin things No I'm sure your post was brilliant and very insightful. I would have loved to read it.

Nah, don't give me too much credit. It really wasn't very insightful.

The gist: because of faith... then circular reasoning... then deciding to accept claims based on faith or not... then whether or not Satan is an actual character or a representation... blah blah blah... same old stuff

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09-10-2014, 01:14 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 07:30 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I wonder why Christians trust the Bible as a valid source of information for what happened. I'm not talking about the obviousness of all the unsubstantiated accounts of magic happening. I don't mean how their apologetics show YHWH is untrustworthy (I already touched on that). I just mean the overall account of things:
  • Stories being told by authors who had no witnesses to the events.
  • Books being written by people who had "divine revelations".
  • Satan as "the Deceiver".
The first two bullet points show how the story is written by people with no accountability for their fantastic claims. Hell, people have analyzed the texts and know for sure that Paul didn't write all the epistles. The exact number of them is in dispute, but we know that people claiming to be someone who had a divine revelation from God got their books inserted into biblical canon, and that doesn't even speak to whether or not Paul actually did have any revelation. How do people know this? How would they even be able to check to see if he's telling the truth? They are warned about false teacher and prophets and to not listen to them, but they have no way to be able to check the veracity of the author's claims. They could be false teacher poisoning the well against dissenting points of view.

And on the topic of poisoning the well, what about poor Satan? We are told flat-out that he is wrong, he is a liar, and to never trust him. This is a one-sided story where we are told to never talk to the other side to try and figure out what really happened. In any other situation, this would be highly suspicious and it would look like someone is trying to hide something. Put it in the context of religion, and suddenly everything is fine and it gets a free pass.

Shouldn't this alone be enough to put doubt into any adherent? Ignoring the absurdity of all the claims, the total lack of evidence, and the demonstrable wrongness of parts of the Bible, the book itself looks sketchy as hell.
I think the majority trust their preachers more than the Bible itself. Most haven't read the Bible and don't have a clue what's in it beyond the cherry-picked passages that their preachers have read to them. They trust that their preachers have read the whole thing and, if they say it's legit, then it must be. I doubt many of them have ever heard the point you raised about Paul's epistles not all being written by Paul or even that the authors didn't personally witness the events. And, when you believe in magic, "divine revelation" is just par for the course. It's all a mixture of willful ignorance and blind trust in any so-called authority (preacher, parents, Bible school teacher) who says it's all true.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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09-10-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 01:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 12:48 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Why do people have to ruin things No I'm sure your post was brilliant and very insightful. I would have loved to read it.

Nah, don't give me too much credit. It really wasn't very insightful.

The gist: because of faith... then circular reasoning... then deciding to accept claims based on faith or not... then whether or not Satan is an actual character or a representation... blah blah blah... same old stuff

Well I like your posts. I learn a lot reading what you have to say. Thumbsup I think you deserve the credit.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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09-10-2014, 01:24 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 01:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 12:48 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Why do people have to ruin things No I'm sure your post was brilliant and very insightful. I would have loved to read it.

Nah, don't give me too much credit. It really wasn't very insightful.

The gist: because of faith... then circular reasoning... then deciding to accept claims based on faith or not... then whether or not Satan is an actual character or a representation... blah blah blah... same old stuff

Very few theists who come here admit that the reason for their belief is faith. They start with the attacks on evolution, or morality, or something. That seems to be what gets people's dander up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2014, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2014 01:31 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 01:10 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The gist: because of faith... then circular reasoning... then deciding to accept claims based on faith or not... then whether or not Satan is an actual character or a representation... blah blah blah... same old stuff

Fair enough. I guess that's roughly what I was expecting.

My wife would approach this in an entirely different way. She believes the Bible was written by people who wanted to express their beliefs and views, but was in no way "written by God". So, this gives her the freedom to take a very take-it-or-leave-it approach to about anything in there. Like you, she doesn't believe that Satan was (is) necessarily real.

So, I guess her truncated answer would be "I don't trust it as 100% true". Her beliefs are basically with taking what she wants from it combined with the whole notion of "feeling God". It's all very non-falsifiable, of course, but she doesn't really trouble herself much with any given part of the Bible if it conflicts with her beliefs.


(09-10-2014 01:14 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I think the majority trust their preachers more than the Bible itself.

Anecdotally, I can definitely see this. I've heard others talk about stumping people in debates who would hand wave it way as "well, my pastor knows". Recently, I stumped a Jehovah's Witness who admitted as much, only to come back with a Watchtower article two weeks later that gave her the answer she wanted.


(09-10-2014 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Very few theists who come here admit that the reason for their belief is faith. They start with the attacks on evolution, or morality, or something. That seems to be what gets people's dander up.

I have to agree with that. During my time at the den of Baptists, I managed to get a few of them to agree that their belief was one rooted in faith, and we reached a certain amount of understanding and respect at that point. It was the ones who kept trying to push bad arguments or flat-out put words in my mouth that would frustrate me.

It's no different, here. There were a couple theist posters here that I miss.
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09-10-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Very few theists who come here admit that the reason for their belief is faith. They start with the attacks on evolution, or morality, or something. That seems to be what gets people's dander up.

I have to agree with that. During my time at the den of Baptists, I managed to get a few of them to agree that their belief was one rooted in faith, and we reached a certain amount of understanding and respect at that point. It was the ones who kept trying to push bad arguments or flat-out put words in my mouth that would frustrate me.

It's no different, here. There were a couple theist posters here that I miss.

I'm at a loss how it can be anything else. Scripture blatantly states that belief is based in faith and faith is a gift from God.

What can you even argue in regards to belief not being faith-based?

Are they trying to argue that their beliefs are based in evidence? ie - something other than anecdotal? ...but even if... that goes against scripture. I don't know... the more I hear about other Christians' arguments, the more that I think I'm a retarded Christian because I just can't see eye-to-eye with them.

I mean... how can they justify these verses?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

...plus the other eleventy billion verses that talk about it... See... this is why I don't discuss stuff anymore.

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