Why do Christians trust the Bible?
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09-10-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I have to agree with that. During my time at the den of Baptists, I managed to get a few of them to agree that their belief was one rooted in faith, and we reached a certain amount of understanding and respect at that point. It was the ones who kept trying to push bad arguments or flat-out put words in my mouth that would frustrate me.

It's no different, here. There were a couple theist posters here that I miss.

I'm at a loss how it can be anything else. Scripture blatantly states that belief is based in faith and faith is a gift from God.

What can you even argue in regards to belief not being faith-based?

Are they trying to argue that their beliefs are based in evidence? ie - something other than anecdotal? ...but even if... that goes against scripture. I don't know... the more I hear about other Christians' arguments, the more that I think I'm a retarded Christian because I just can't see eye-to-eye with them.

I mean... how can they justify these verses?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

...plus the other eleventy billion verses that talk about it... See... this is why I don't discuss stuff anymore.

Maybe you're turning atheist? Gasp Big Grin
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09-10-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I think I'm a retarded Christian because I just can't see eye-to-eye with them.

I think its the other way around

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09-10-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
Typically they don't know what's actually in the damn book.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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09-10-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I have to agree with that. During my time at the den of Baptists, I managed to get a few of them to agree that their belief was one rooted in faith, and we reached a certain amount of understanding and respect at that point. It was the ones who kept trying to push bad arguments or flat-out put words in my mouth that would frustrate me.

It's no different, here. There were a couple theist posters here that I miss.

I'm at a loss how it can be anything else. Scripture blatantly states that belief is based in faith and faith is a gift from God.

What can you even argue in regards to belief not being faith-based?

Are they trying to argue that their beliefs are based in evidence? ie - something other than anecdotal? ...but even if... that goes against scripture. I don't know... the more I hear about other Christians' arguments, the more that I think I'm a retarded Christian because I just can't see eye-to-eye with them.

I mean... how can they justify these verses?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

...plus the other eleventy billion verses that talk about it... See... this is why I don't discuss stuff anymore.

I have had conversations/arguments with Catholics who swear that the existence of God and the truth of the Catholic Faith can be known "through reason alone" (this claim, in turn, is based on something Paul said in one of the epistles), and then trot out Aquinas's "5 ways" or something similar. Of course, these same people have also argued that the Bible is "inerrant" and contains no contradictions, so I have a hard time taking them seriously.
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09-10-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(09-10-2014 01:27 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I have to agree with that. During my time at the den of Baptists, I managed to get a few of them to agree that their belief was one rooted in faith, and we reached a certain amount of understanding and respect at that point. It was the ones who kept trying to push bad arguments or flat-out put words in my mouth that would frustrate me.

It's no different, here. There were a couple theist posters here that I miss.

I'm at a loss how it can be anything else. Scripture blatantly states that belief is based in faith and faith is a gift from God.

What can you even argue in regards to belief not being faith-based?

Are they trying to argue that their beliefs are based in evidence? ie - something other than anecdotal? ...but even if... that goes against scripture. I don't know... the more I hear about other Christians' arguments, the more that I think I'm a retarded Christian because I just can't see eye-to-eye with them.

I mean... how can they justify these verses?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NASB

...plus the other eleventy billion verses that talk about it... See... this is why I don't discuss stuff anymore.

You are, of course, familiar with their 'logical' arguments for the existence of god?
The ones that have been refuted ad nauseum?

And then there are the truly dishonest Biblical arguments involving cherry-picking and convoluted rationalizations.

It's not about honest faith, it's about dishonest argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
I just don't get it, though.

Why is admitting that belief is faith-based such a damning confession? Why fight it so hard? Am I just not seeing something here?

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09-10-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 03:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I just don't get it, though.

Why is admitting that belief is faith-based such a damning confession? Why fight it so hard? Am I just not seeing something here?

Because to these people their faith is hanging on by a thing shred. 1 little thing will shake it to the core. If the bible is not infallible then all of their beliefs are wrong. People more secure in their faith do not need everything in the book to be literally true.

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09-10-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What can you even argue in regards to belief not being faith-based?

Are they trying to argue that their beliefs are based in evidence? ie - something other than anecdotal?

It depended on the person. The whole thing started when I said that there was no evidence that God exists that doesn't require you to presuppose God's existence in the first place. I said this in context of it not being fair for someone to impose religious laws on others.

So, a lot of people told me I was wrong. The most common answer I got was "creation is evidence of God". I don't remember getting the cosmological argument (but I might have) and I got one shot with an odd variation of the ontological argument. After a bit of pressing, two or three people admitted they were presupposing God's existence and said that their belief was faith-based.

I think on a broader level, for many people, it's just a matter of them buying into bad arguments because they like them.
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09-10-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 03:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I just don't get it, though.

Why is admitting that belief is faith-based such a damning confession? Why fight it so hard? Am I just not seeing something here?

I'm friends with the guy that runs that Facebook group that I've referred to as "the den of Baptists". If you want, I can put you in contact with him if you want to join the group and ask them directly. You might get better answers directly from them, as opposed to me watering them down.

There are one or two prominent Calvinists in the group and a lot of Baptists. I haven't been there in a few months.
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09-10-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Why do Christians trust the Bible?
(09-10-2014 03:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I just don't get it, though.

Why is admitting that belief is faith-based such a damning confession? Why fight it so hard? Am I just not seeing something here?

That doesn't bother me - I understand that faith is based on feelings. What's damning is trying to veneer over that with justification.
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