Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
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17-11-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define value.

"The importance, worth, and usefulness of something".

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define #1

Based on total number of followers.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define who wrote John

John the Apostle.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  guess what, John is the wrong answer

Of course it is, to someone with an axe to grind.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  so how do you know what jesus said

I don't even know what Abe Lincoln said during his Gettysburg Address. All I know is what I've been told he said by someone else. I also don't know who wrote the Star Spangled Banner, or the Declaration of Indepdence.

All I know is what I've been told by others. But I dont' "know" anything. You catch my drift??

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  as no one who EVER wrote of jesus knew him

Non sequitur.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ......ahhhh that inconvenient beating with facts never gets old. Big Grin

Mannn you couldn't beat your meat inside of a porn store Laugh out load

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Xtianity is literally aging out in America. The numbers of delusional and gullible dipshits like you is dropping like a dress on prom night. Only 1 in 3 Americans under the age of 30 believe in a god....you can thank education and the internet for that.

[Image: 25u03ee.jpg]

If the number of Christianity is dropping...it is because "...wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life, and only a few will find it."

Matt 7:13-14
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17-11-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 07:27 PM)epronovost Wrote:  As I can see, you haven`t read my next post on this issue, where I expose your lack of knowledge about the demographic of Muslim wich are actually more numerous in Asia than in the Middle East. I would also like to point out that the population of Northern Africa and the Middle East, the craddle of Islam, is groing fast in terms of population while Europe and North America, the craddle of modern Christianity, is slowly decreasing in population. It seems that your love of Christianity has blinded you to the growing strength of the islamic faith (not to mention the growth of secularism and atheism in general in the Occidental world).

I specifically said "Islam just doesn't transcend race like Christianity does"...and I am right...now sure, of the 7 billion people in this world, there will be some non-Arab folks that follow Islam. However, when compared to Christianity, it doesn't compare.

Christianity has the entire continents of North America, South America, Europe, and Australia, and the entire middle and lower half of Africa...and it also has Russia.

Now, as far as the other Asian countries are concerned, I'd like to know how many Asians identify themselves as Christians relative to Islam...I am pretty sure Christianity will win there as well.

(16-11-2015 07:27 PM)epronovost Wrote:  PS: Since you don't seem to know a lot about other faiths, both Islam and Hinduism offer eternal life. Islam offers it in the same brand and under almost identical circomstances than Christianity (accept God and the word of his prophets: Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Mohammet, etc.).

Islam is a low-budget bootleg version of Christianity.

(16-11-2015 07:27 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Hinduism is a bit more complicated, but also offers both reincarnation and spiritual afterlife based on your good work and wisdom. At least that's what they promess and on that point, they are about jus has believable has the Christian promess.

Who is ultimately in charge of the afterlife / reincarnation? Any religion can offer things, the point is, what is the evidence for it? When it comes to actual evidence, Christianity will continue to reign supreme over all other religions.

"We are #1, we've been #1, and we will stay #1".

Christianity is a low-budget bootleg version of older Sumerian, Babylonian, Greek and Crete myths. Sold to the masses with lies, pseudepigrapha, parables, whimsical allegorical stories, fiction, fantasy and forgery called the bible...and the ever present exploitation of fear as the little engine that could. BELIEVE OR SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL! Denounce your religion for ours or die (holy wars strike a bell?, inquisition? Christians torturing Jews in the 14th century and burning them alive because they thought they caused the black plague...you know, all those good Christian values.) Now that Xtians have enjoyed being the establishment for the last hundred or so years they are screaming about their mythical "war on Christianity" BS...because their numbers are plummeting as people embrace education, reason, and logic...uhoh.

Zero evidence is still zero evidence.

All major miraculous stories of bible solidly debunked....flood, exodus etc

No one who wrote of jesus knew him...no one....ever.

Xtianity infectious growth was due to Emperor Constantine, Bishop Augustine, and campaigns like the holy wars. Fast forward to modern days, those infected with faith under the name of xtianity have spent lots of time going to ignorant, uneducated third world countries handing out a bowl of rice, or building a well while simultaneously giving them fictional books like bibles and setting up brain washing sessions where at the end of the lecture you get a bowl of soggy rice or a tshirt. Big surprise, people will do anything for a bowl of rice when they are starving. If the fat white man in the funny outfit wants the scrawny, ignorant, uneducated 3rd world citizen to "pray" and play along with his babbling about some super sky genie and they get a bowl of rice or a chicken leg thereafter then they are in for the win.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-11-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:15 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  And I told you that Christianity is the very one world religion that you warn yourselves about. Thanks for reinforcing that notion.

Huh
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17-11-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:19 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Btw, how did you manage to spur this so focused on Christianity? The topic is about CREATIONISM. You basically took that and just inserted how Christianity is #1 so CREATIONISTS are fine using the same argument.

Oh, the irony of one conversation leading to another.

(17-11-2015 09:19 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Christian doesn't equal Creationist! This whole point wildly misses the entire point and you began railing an idea against no point. There is also a potentially stronger push towards Evolutionary(conceptually) Christianity growing. Which is more to the point of, Creationism NOT winning.

What do you think is the #1 Christian Denomination. CATHOLICISM, which doesn't embrace Creationism. They're #1 and they will stay #1! Lecture_preist

I don't know what it means to be a Christian, while NOT being a Creationist. That is like telling me that water isn't wet. Makes no sense.
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17-11-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I specifically said "Islam just doesn't transcend race like Christianity does"...and I am right...now sure, of the 7 billion people in this world, there will be some non-Arab folks that follow Islam. However, when compared to Christianity, it doesn't compare.

The majority of Arabs may be Muslim, but Arabs are a minority of Muslims.

Quote:Christianity has the entire continents of North America, South America, Europe, and Australia, and the entire middle and lower half of Africa...and it also has Russia.

Now, as far as the other Asian countries are concerned, I'd like to know how many Asians identify themselves as Christians relative to Islam...I am pretty sure Christianity will win there as well.

Nearly a billion Asian Muslims, fewer than 100 million Asian Christians.

Quote:Who is ultimately in charge of the afterlife / reincarnation?

No one? First give evidence of an afterlife, then evidence for who might be in charge. Drinking Beverage

Quote:Any religion can offer things, the point is, what is the evidence for it? When it comes to actual evidence, Christianity will continue to reign supreme over all other religions.

There is no evidence of the truth of Christianity.

Quote:"We are #1, we've been #1, and we will stay #1".

Christianity is declining and will not be #1 for very long.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:30 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-11-2015 09:19 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Btw, how did you manage to spur this so focused on Christianity? The topic is about CREATIONISM. You basically took that and just inserted how Christianity is #1 so CREATIONISTS are fine using the same argument.

Oh, the irony of one conversation leading to another.

(17-11-2015 09:19 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Christian doesn't equal Creationist! This whole point wildly misses the entire point and you began railing an idea against no point. There is also a potentially stronger push towards Evolutionary(conceptually) Christianity growing. Which is more to the point of, Creationism NOT winning.

What do you think is the #1 Christian Denomination. CATHOLICISM, which doesn't embrace Creationism. They're #1 and they will stay #1! Lecture_preist

I don't know what it means to be a Christian, while NOT being a Creationist. That is like telling me that water isn't wet. Makes no sense.

Well too bad for you, because millions do. Even the majority of those who would call themselves Christians across the world are more likely to not be Creationist. So really, they're the more top fitting grouping and there is often discussion of "liberal Christianity" growing within Christianity over any defined denomination or creationist view.

So not only is Christianity dwindling in the world, the idea of creationist christianity is as well. Because people have come to realize putting a sense of authority into a ancient text or "personal" revelation is far less sensible and results oriented than putting it into observable phenomena and repeated self-checking not proclaiming absolute ideas.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-11-2015, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2015 12:58 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:23 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define value.

"The importance, worth, and usefulness of something".

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define #1

Based on total number of followers.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Define who wrote John

John the Apostle.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  guess what, John is the wrong answer

Of course it is, to someone with an axe to grind.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  so how do you know what jesus said

I don't even know what Abe Lincoln said during his Gettysburg Address. All I know is what I've been told he said by someone else. I also don't know who wrote the Star Spangled Banner, or the Declaration of Indepdence.

All I know is what I've been told by others. But I dont' "know" anything. You catch my drift??

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  as no one who EVER wrote of jesus knew him

Non sequitur.

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ......ahhhh that inconvenient beating with facts never gets old. Big Grin

Mannn you couldn't beat your meat inside of a porn store Laugh out load

(16-11-2015 07:20 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Xtianity is literally aging out in America. The numbers of delusional and gullible dipshits like you is dropping like a dress on prom night. Only 1 in 3 Americans under the age of 30 believe in a god....you can thank education and the internet for that.

[Image: 25u03ee.jpg]

If the number of Christianity is dropping...it is because "...wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life, and only a few will find it."

Matt 7:13-14

Sad attempt for a comparison. We have Abraham Lincoln's writings, personal affects, home, pictures of him, his speeches, people who wrote about him who ....wait for it....knew him, met him, listened to him, and wrote down what he said.....and....get this...they were ALIVE at the time WITH Abraham. To compare that with a fabricated super hero who was born of a god and a mortal, just like ALL other hero-god stories from Horus in 3000 BCE, all the way to jesus and beyond...same recipe.....where not one single word was ever written AT THE TIME, by someone who actually knew him, met him, or witnessed his Benny Hinn show...not one. One would think...I know you don't do that often, but one would think if zombies were bursting out of the ground, earth went dark, and jesus flew up into the sky, SOMEONE would have thought that noteworthy....nope. Philo of Alexandria recorded events of the day to great detail and lived and traveled the area...not....one....word of jesus....perhaps Justus who lived in Galilee...nope, not one word.....so you are trying to compare someone who was an ordinary man, where there is a plethora of tangible, empirical evidence for his existence and actions, with a fairy tale with zero evidence.......surely you can do better than that...oh wait, I remember now....you can't.

No, in reference to John, biblical experts, and those who have spent their lives studying the historicity of jesus....know John didn't write john. Only dipshits like you and Ken Ham believe in the fairy tale in its literal form, while the vast majority of the educated world who study theology know otherwise based on facts.....

Lets school Cartilage of the Brain yet again...

All four gospels are anonymous. John identifies its author as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century, a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus' innermost circle). The majority of biblical scholars do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it and trace it instead to a "Johannine community" which traced its traditions to John; the gospel itself shows signs of having been composed in three "layers", reaching its final form about 90–100 AD. The earliest manuscripts to contain the beginning of the gospel (Papyrus 66 and Papyrus 75), dating from around the year 200, are entitled "The Gospel according to John".

Within this view of a complex and multi-layered history, it is meaningless to speak of a single "author" of John, but the title perhaps belongs best to the evangelist who came at the end of this process. The final composition's comparatively late date, and its insistence upon Jesus as a divine being walking the earth in human form renders it highly problematical to scholars who attempt to evaluate Jesus' life in terms of literal historical truth

Sources:

Anderson 2007, p. 19."These facts pose a major problem for the traditional view of John's authorship, and they are one of the key reasons critical scholars reject it."

Lindars, 1990, p. 20."It is thus important to see the reasons why the traditional identification is regarded by most scholars as untenable."

The New Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible: Volume 3 Abingdon Press, 2008. p. 362 "Presently, few commentators would argue that a disciple of Jesus actually wrote the Fourth Gospel,..."

Marilyn Mellowes The Gospel of John From Jesus to Christ: A Portrait of Jesus' World. PBS 2010-11-3. "Tradition has credited John, the son of Zebedee and an apostle of Jesus, with the authorship of the fourth gospel. Most scholars dispute this notion;..."

D. A. Carson, Douglas J. Moo. An introduction to the New Testament. Zondervan; 2 New edition. 2005. Pg 233 “The fact remains that despite support for Johannine authorship by a few front rank scholars in this century and by many popular writers, a large majority of contemporary scholars reject this view.”

"To most modern scholars direct apostolic authorship has therefore seemed unlikely." "John, Gospel of." Cross, F. L., ed. The Oxford dictionary of the Christian church. New York: Oxford University Press. 2005


Someday when you actually learn to read, research, and utilize comprehension skills, you can join the rest of the adults in the conversation about mythology.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-11-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
@Call_of_the_Wild

Are you willing to let me honestly teach you about the foundation, structure, philosophical and cultural background of another religion than yours or is your response yet another attempt at waving off an issue and simultanously demonstrate your abyssal ignorance of even the very most basic elements of the second (soon to be first) and third largest religious group in the world?

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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17-11-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:30 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I don't know what it means to be a Christian, while NOT being a Creationist. That is like telling me that water isn't wet. Makes no sense.

Funnily enough it makes sense to hundreds of millions of xtians.....the majority in fact.

You are conflating xtianity with creationism. Just another thing you've got wrong.
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17-11-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: Why do Creationists keep using the same old arguments?
(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Christianity is a low-budget bootleg version of older Sumerian, Babylonian, Greek and Crete myths.

Umm, hmmm, well...those "myths" are polytheistic. Christianity is monothestic.

That was rather easy. Oh, Genetic Fallacy as well...

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Sold to the masses with lies, pseudepigrapha, parables, whimsical allegorical stories, fiction, fantasy and forgery called the bible...and the ever present exploitation of fear as the little engine that could.

Non sequitur.

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  BELIEVE OR SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL! Denounce your religion for ours or die (holy wars strike a bell?, inquisition? Christians torturing Jews in the 14th century and burning them alive because they thought they caused the black plague...you know, all those good Christian values.)

Fallacy of hasty generalization.

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Now that Xtians have enjoyed being the establishment for the last hundred or so years they are screaming about their mythical "war on Christianity" BS...because their numbers are plummeting as people embrace education, reason, and logic...uhoh.

Think so?

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Zero evidence is still zero evidence.

All major miraculous stories of bible solidly debunked....flood, exodus etc

Debunked by whom?

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  No one who wrote of jesus knew him...no one....ever.

Non sequitur.

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Xtianity infectious growth was due to Emperor Constantine, Bishop Augustine, and campaigns like the holy wars.

Christianity had spread all the way to Turkey (from Jerusalem) 200 years before Constantine.

This is just a prime example of an unbeliever spewing the tyical inaccurate quip of
"It is because of Constantine that Christians X, Y and Z"...or "If it wasn't for Constantine, Christianity wouldn't be X, Y, and Z".

That kind of spewage is just that, spewage. It just is historically inaccurate.

(17-11-2015 09:25 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Fast forward to modern days, those infected with faith under the name of xtianity have spent lots of time going to ignorant, uneducated third world countries handing out a bowl of rice, or building a well while simultaneously giving them fictional books like bibles and setting up brain washing sessions where at the end of the lecture you get a bowl of soggy rice or a tshirt. Big surprise, people will do anything for a bowl of rice when they are starving. If the fat white man in the funny outfit wants the scrawny, ignorant, uneducated 3rd world citizen to "pray" and play along with his babbling about some super sky genie and they get a bowl of rice or a chicken leg thereafter then they are in for the win.

Genetic fallacy.
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