Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
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27-12-2015, 11:03 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 10:49 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 09:50 PM)yakherder Wrote:  It's a pain in the ass, sure, but far from crippling. And even living abroad, by virtue of being a U.S. citizen you create an expense. Few countries don't try to recuperate at least some of that expense, it isn't just the U.S.

Citation please. What other developed country even requires its citizens to file tax returns once they've taken up residency abroad?

Sure, it's not crippling if you don't have a lot of money, they figure it's not worth hunting you down. But what about, say, chess champion Bobby Fisher? He gave up US residency, never to return, and, like me didn't want to contribute to be a part of "The horrible behavior that the U.S. is committing all over the world". But he made a lot of money playing chess, so the U.S. indicted him for tax evasion for not sending it back to the U.S. to fund the war effort he was trying to escape, and then pressured Japan to have him extradited. But, to the rest of the world, this ISIS-like behavior that one cannot leave his country is so offensive other countries, including Scandinavian ones, rallied to his aid and Iceland's parliament even passed an emergency bill granting him Icelandic citizenship which gave Japan an out to hand him over to Iceland instead of the US.

(27-12-2015 09:50 PM)yakherder Wrote:  You don't like the U.S. I get it, whatever. But you've become delusional in regards to your belief that the U.S. actually gives a shit about you wanting to leave. It doesn't.

I wish you were true. Back in the 90's when I left and moved to Switzerland I never knew I had to still file US tax returns. I thought it's a free country and if you don't like it you can just leave. Since I had no contact with the IRS, they pulled my last return as a US resident and found my business partner from a corporate tax return I signed on, and called him and threatened him with an arduous audit if he didn't help them find me. He and I hadn't had contact either, so he couldn't help (I was oblivious to all this), so they then contacted my mother to get my contact information. When they finally found me I got a $600,000 "failure to file" penalty for having the audacity to defect. And I've never been arrested or had any problems with the law, nor did I have any tax problems before I left. While I lived in the US I paid all my taxes.

So you're dead wrong that they don't care. I had sold a successful business and had some money to go after, so, yes, as far as they're concerned, even if I build a one-way rocketship to Mars to live in a biosphere and try to escape, they're going to send astronaut enforcement agents after me if I don't report everything I do every day that has economic interest to them, and send them their cut.

I'm a libertarian, so if I run a restaurant and my customers are leaving, my response would be to try changing my menu. The democrats' response is to send agents to former customers' home and force them to continue paying for meals whether they ever set foot in the restaurant or not. And, as I mentioned, the democrats do NOT expect me to pay anything to the government that funded my education, police, fire, roads, etc. (ie state of california), nor to medicaid nor social security. I can say good riddance to all those agencies and kick them to the curb without any complaints. The only agency they force me to support is the US military war machine, since that's where the lion's share of federal income taxes go (remember social security & medicaid are funded by separate taxes which expats are NOT expected to pay). Thus in my book the dems are even more of a war party than the reps because at least according to the reps, if you don't want to support the war effort, you should be free to go. It's the dems who insist you have a life-long duty to fund the military machine.

You are so foolish as to not warrant a response. God you're dim.

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27-12-2015, 11:05 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
I'm on the phone with a drummer mate from California. He says and I quote "I don't pay US tax."

He's married to an Aussie girl and they have two Aussie kids. Before he gained Australian citizenship he paid taxes of some kind. He's gone now.

Anyway, that's all I know.

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27-12-2015, 11:20 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 05:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Now look at the Federal Budget. Once you remove social security & medicaid since they have their own taxes, where does the lion's share of federal income tax go? WAR. $1.4 trillion paid in income taxes, $1.2 trillion goes to military and the war debt. So, US dems argue, they can decide what organizations contributed to our success, and those that provided education, police, fire, etc., get nothing.

Your stats don't appear to hold water. First, considering how much of our budget is social security and medicare, it seems a bit absurd to argue all our money goes to the military by carving out such a large part of our spending.

However setting aside that slight of hand for the moment, your argument still isn't quite true. I don't see how you are getting $1.2 trillion out of $1.4 trillion. Now, it is true we collect $1.4 trillion in "income taxes", but we collect $3 trillion in all taxes. And it seems to be disingenuous to cite statistics of the amount of spending in one category in relation to the amount we collect as opposed to the amount we spend, since we spend more than we collect by about $500 billion. Moreover, I don't see how you get $1.2 trillion in military spending. In part, your statistic seems to include interest on the debt, as if all debt spending is entirely attributable military spending.

So in short, the information you present is misleading in almost every conceivable way. Such dishonesty is either intentional or due to gross incompetence on your part.

Wiki has some useful graphics to visualize the big picture on the US budget.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...ral_budget
[Image: U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png]
[Image: U.S._Federal_Receipts_-_FY_2007.png]
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27-12-2015, 11:20 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:01 PM)Banjo Wrote:  To quote from your own link. "If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien residing overseas, or are in the military on duty outside the U.S., on the regular due date of your return,"

They are full Australian citizens you dipstick.

Huh? YOU said they were Americans (ie US citizens) and thus the link you just copied/pasted proves I was right--they still have to pay US taxes.

I don't even know these people, so how are you holding me responsible if you're confused about their citizenship. The fact is if they're US citizens, they have to pay US taxes, and file FBAR reports providing all the details of their bank accounts.
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27-12-2015, 11:27 PM (This post was last modified: 27-12-2015 11:32 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 10:57 PM)frankksj Wrote:  So, if you provide a citation, .;..

Take this citation and shove it up your ass, asshole. ... God you're an idiot.

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27-12-2015, 11:29 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 05:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Now look at the Federal Budget. Once you remove social security & medicaid since they have their own taxes, where does the lion's share of federal income tax go? WAR. $1.4 trillion paid in income taxes, $1.2 trillion goes to military and the war debt. So, US dems argue, they can decide what organizations contributed to our success, and those that provided education, police, fire, etc., get nothing.

Your stats don't appear to hold water. First, considering how much of our budget is social security and medicare, it seems a bit absurd to argue all our money goes to the military by carving out such a large part of our spending.

However setting aside that slight of hand for the moment, your argument still isn't quite true. I don't see how you are getting $1.2 trillion out of $1.4 trillion. Now, it is true we collect $1.4 trillion in "income taxes", but we collect $3 trillion in all taxes. And it seems to be disingenuous to cite statistics of the amount of spending in one category in relation to the amount we collect as opposed to the amount we spend, since we spend more than we collect by about $500 billion. Moreover, I don't see how you get $1.2 trillion in military spending. In part, your statistic seems to include interest on the debt, as if all debt spending is entirely attributable military spending.

So in short, the information you present is misleading in almost every conceivable way. Such dishonesty is either intentional or due to gross incompetence on your part.

Wiki has some useful graphics to visualize the big picture on the US budget.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta...ral_budget
[Image: U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png]
[Image: U.S._Federal_Receipts_-_FY_2007.png]

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27-12-2015, 11:30 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:20 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 11:01 PM)Banjo Wrote:  To quote from your own link. "If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien residing overseas, or are in the military on duty outside the U.S., on the regular due date of your return,"

They are full Australian citizens you dipstick.

Huh? YOU said they were Americans (ie US citizens) and thus the link you just copied/pasted proves I was right--they still have to pay US taxes.

I don't even know these people, so how are you holding me responsible if you're confused about their citizenship. The fact is if they're US citizens, they have to pay US taxes, and file FBAR reports providing all the details of their bank accounts.

Mate they were born in America. Now they are naturalised Australians. They still have American accents. Big Grin

To me they are Americans. You said Americans can't leave America without paying taxes. These guys did. I know three of them here in Sydney.

Perhaps this may suit you more. Alternate forum.

Or here. Another forum for you.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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27-12-2015, 11:48 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 05:07 PM)frankksj Wrote:  Now look at the Federal Budget. Once you remove social security & medicaid since they have their own taxes, where does the lion's share of federal income tax go? WAR.

Your stats don't appear to hold water. First, considering how much of our budget is social security and medicare, it seems a bit absurd to argue all our money goes to the military by carving out such a large part of our spending.

Did you read what I wrote? Of course social security & medicare don't count because they're fully funded by their own separate taxes, and the US doesn't expect you to pay them if you don't live in the US.

(27-12-2015 11:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Now, it is true we collect $1.4 trillion in "income taxes", but we collect $3 trillion in all taxes.

Like I said, for the other taxes, if you don't feel you're getting a good value, you're free to leave. The only tax that is for life is income tax, which your chart shows as $1.395 trillion--so my $1.4 number is spot on.

Further, if you look your expense chart I see you pulled it from this wikipedia page. Scroll down and you'll see that the $578 billion doesn't include Veterans affairs or DHS, which are also part of the military machine. Add them in and you're at $770 billion. Now when you look at the deficit (which is the debt and therefore the interest) it has always been less than the military budget, so if you eliminated all the wars, you wouldn't have the debt or the interest. Which is why I said I added in "interest on the war debt". I chose my words carefully to be totally honest and accurate. add those in and we're at $999 billion for the military. Now add in the other agencies that are part of the military machine, but not included in the military budget, like the CIA, and you get to the $1.2 trillion number I said.

(27-12-2015 11:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  And it seems to be disingenuous to cite statistics of the amount of spending in one category in relation to the amount we collect as opposed to the amount we spend, since we spend more than we collect by about $500 billion. Moreover, I don't see how you get $1.2 trillion in military spending. In part, your statistic seems to include interest on the debt, as if all debt spending is entirely attributable military spending.

Even if you look at the total spending (not including social security and medicare which expats don't pay), the biggest chunk is military. And I explained why it's fair to attribute the interest to military since if it weren't for all these stupid wars you wouldn't have a debt anyway. So no matter how you slice the numbers, my statement that the democratic insists US citizens must fund the military machine for life is completely accurate and fair, since that's the bulk of where expats tax money goes. And it's also completely accurate that the dems do not expect expats to continue to pay state/local taxes which fund schools, roads, police, and the other things that actually contribute to one's success in life.

So, yes, this subject pisses me off because I had a successful business, and while one could argue I owed the state of California for providing me an education and other services that actually contributed to my future success, the dems insist I owe California nothing. I only owe federal income taxes, which mainly fund war. And as far I'm concerned, the US's constant war mongering not only contributed nothing to my success, it was actually the biggest impediment to it, since it made America unsafe having so many angry victims plotting revenge. And living in a peaceful European country, particularly after the US invasion, Americans were seen as ignorant, backwards, barbaric shoot-first killing machines, and having US citizenship was actually a major burden. And once Obama got FATCA passed, now foreign banks won't even open do business with US citizens anymore. So the government funded by US federal income taxes contributed nothing to my life, and was in fact the biggest impediment to success, and the hardest challenge to overcome. So when the dems insist I have to support it for life whether I live in the US or not, yes, that's barbaric.

And not just my viewpoint. The whole rest of the world, including the UN, Europe, EVERYWHERE except N. Korea and ISIS, believe you pay taxes in exchange for government services, and if you feel you're not getting a good value you should be able to move away and stop paying for those services since you're not using them anymore. I live in Colombia, and nobody can believe that Americans have to pay taxes for life. It's just unheard of. Even in Venezuela, under a far-left socialist regime, where they're suffering from mass emigration and brain drain, even there the idea of not allowing Venezuelans to leave the system is unthinkable.

I've challenged repeatedly to name one organization besides ISIS, N. Korea and the US democratic policy that feels this way. I'm still waiting for a name. Anybody?
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27-12-2015, 11:50 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:30 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Mate they were born in America. Now they are naturalised Australians. They still have American accents.

That means they had dual citizenship and were able to renounce their US citizenship--just like Eduardo Saverin, and something the US democratic party has called a "loophole" that needs to be closed. However, for those like me who didn't have non-US parents to get us dual citizenship, renouncing wasn't an option and we're stuck funding the US war machine for life.
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27-12-2015, 11:52 PM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  I'm still waiting for a name. Anybody?

Snoopy!

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