Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
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28-12-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(27-12-2015 11:50 PM)frankksj Wrote:  we're stuck funding the US war machine for life.

Thank you for helping fund my range outings, btw. Greatly appreciated. Next time we get sent out (if we do, deployments are hard to come by these days) I'll slay some terrorists and/or commies in your name.

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28-12-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
Where do these guys come from? Hobo
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28-12-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 08:44 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 11:50 PM)frankksj Wrote:  we're stuck funding the US war machine for life.

Thank you for helping fund my range outings, btw. Greatly appreciated. Next time we get sent out (if we do, deployments are hard to come by these days) I'll slay some terrorists and/or commies in your name.

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If he was still here he could have some free Free Speech, on us.

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28-12-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 08:44 AM)yakherder Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 11:50 PM)frankksj Wrote:  we're stuck funding the US war machine for life.

Thank you for helping fund my range outings, btw. Greatly appreciated. Next time we get sent out (if we do, deployments are hard to come by these days) I'll slay some terrorists and/or commies in your name.

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28-12-2015, 09:52 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2015 09:56 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
For the record, Franky here is responding to my one and only post in this thread. Let's see if he remembers that, or tries to stawman me with opinions I haven't voiced.

For anyone that knows Franky, you shouldn't be surprised by the answer. Dodgy


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 01:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  If I remember correctly, a few did try to leave, and they were murdered by the cult's security force on the Port Kaituma tarmac along with congressman Leo Ryan and his visiting delegation.
Your response is hilarious.


That's right folks, because in Franky's world, bringing up points of fact is the funny bit. I mean really, how come we're not all just firing from the hip like a dyed in the wool True Believer™ like Franky? I mean, really, why actually put the effort into checking your facts? Hilarious indeed...


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  Remember this started because you took such offense at my belief that if Americans don't like being part of the US system, they should be allowed to just leave and be free of it.


Let the records show that I've never voiced this supposed opinion, indeed I've only had a single post in this thread to this point, and the defendant is thus guilty of projection on an epic scale.

Plus, he's a lying piece of shit.

Franky, stop trying to put words into my mouth. If you want to argue with your imaginary friends, have the good sense to go and masturbate over in the corner by yourself.


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  That whole social contract stuff, that people should be allowed to choose which jurisdiction has laws they are wiling to subject themselves to, and leave if they find themselves in one they consider too oppressive.


Are you a Luminon sock? You sound like Luminon...


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  I pointed out that this thinking is precisely what makes ISIS so offensive. ISIS wouldn't be so offensive if they said "here within these boundaries we practice extreme sharia law, if this is the way you want to live, join us in this community. If not, please move elsewhere."


Really? Their expansionism is what makes them offensive? If only they were genocidal religiously extreme libertarians, would they then be honky-dory?

Fuck, you are delusional as shit...


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  If you were able to defend your position by saying "Japan, Denmark [insert some other modern developed country] share my belief and also require their citizens to pay taxes for life whether they live in their homeland or not", fine.


I am not an expatriate, and what little I do know of, you're only taxed on income over $100,000.

If you're making enough to be taxed, and by the pitifully small rate that the US taxes the wealthy, I just don't really care. There are bigger problem to spend my time on, like poverty, education, and the militarization of the police or attempting to restore our functional democracy by getting money out of politics. An issue that amounts to a minor inconvenience for a few thousand people who can afford the inconvenience? Cry me a fucking river... Dodgy


This only ever seem to be an issue for people who make enough money to not have real problems to deal with (like, where am I going to sleep tonight or get my next meal?), and those with a philosophical boner. If you want to die on that hill, have at it hoss.


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  But instead you're justifying your actions by saying "AFAIK the Jonestown cult shares my belief system and wouldn't let people leave, so it must be ok."


No, you stupid fuck. Where did I at all say that or imply it? All I did was point out the fact that the cultists had killed people attempting to leave, and I chided you for being too lazy to do a Google search.

Beyond that, everything else is in your head. Stop projecting your bullshit onto others, you dishonest fuck.


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  Seriously, you justify your position by saying that "Jonestown did it too?" They're your basis for morality?


What position? I haven't stated one, besides pointing out you're a lazy fuck too inept to do a quick Google search. Now that you're attempting to project your imaginary argument onto me, I'm pointing out what what a disingenuous, delusional, lying piece of shit you are.


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  Fine, even though I still don't see evidence, let's assume you and girly are right. I apologize for not adding them to the list. From now on I'll say that this belief is unique to ISIS, N. Korea, the US democratic party and Jonestown. Happy? Do you feel vindicated that your belief is no longer extreme?


Stop projecting you lying piece of shit.


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  BTW, how come nobody ever challenged me that this belief of yours, that one group owns the economic output of another group for life and the latter cannot just leave and be free of that burden, does fit the dictionary definition of slavery perfectly?


Once again, I haven't actually stated a position, but that hasn't stopped you from creating one for me. Just how loud is the cacophony of voices in your head?


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  In all other developed countries government exists to serve the people, and you voluntarily pay for those services trough taxation, and it's voluntary (social contract) because as soon as you decide you don't want those services anymore and move away, you stop paying for them.


Hyperbole alert.


Be careful using worlds like "all", as in "all other developed countries government exists to serve the people", because all you need is a single counter example to shoot down your entire assertion.

So, how about North Korea? Or, the People's Republic of China? The Russian Federation? How about Vatican City?


(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  The way the Democrats embrace the idea that one group's economic liberty should be sacrificed for the benefit of another group and force is justified to make the former remain subjected to the latter for life, is why as countries become farther left (like the communist countries) they end up closing their borders and trapping the citizens inside because they share your belief that the state owns the citizens (rather than serves them) and thus has the right to extract their fruits of labor for life and that it is NOT a voluntary arrangement one can just leave.


Wow, what a massive pile of factually wrong bullshit.

For starters, both the Democrats and Republicans support taxation; their is debate over who pays and how much. Both parties have establishment, old-guard elements that favor maintaining the status quo, which usually means lowering taxes for the wealthy and corporations (or maintaining their already historically low levels). Also both parties have their more anti-establishment members, such as some of the Libertarian leaning Tea-Party Republicans, and the more socially minded Democrats like Bernie Sanders; they favor a slew of alternative tax plans, from flat taxes, to the abolishing of the IRS, to returning to a more egalitarian tax policy that eases the tax burden on the lower and middle classes that currently carry the vast majority of the burden already. But of course, this reality doesn't fit with your black-and-white hyperbolic narrative, now does it?

For as 'far left' as you apparently think we already are, our most pressing border concern has been and yet remains immigration. We are not East Germany or the rest of the Soviet Bloc, our border with Mexico is not an Iron Curtain whereupon we're trying our best to keep people from escaping. What kind of fucking in the head world do you imagine we live in where you can be so out of touch with reality? This isn't even a hard to look up or esoteric point, the demonization of immigrants has been a cheap Republican crowd-cheering plank of their platform for well over a decade.

Yeah, the United States is unique in taxing the income of citizens abroad, granted if it's over $100,000. Once again, if you make that much money, you're probably doing more than well enough. If only all citizens were so lucky as to be inconvenienced by earning over $100,000 in personal income a year. Plus, as pointed out in Bucky's earlier post, it was the United States that was the driving force in reforming citizenship transfer with their Expatriation Act and the Bancroft Treaties. Now at the time, the US was motivated by European nations conscripting American citizens into their armies or navies. Now it's not such a pressing issue, because it affects such a small number of people, that's it's just not a priority. I mean, there are a thousand and one things I can think of that are of a more pressing concern than expatriation taxation reform. It's not a fucking evil coercion cabal you stupid fuck, it's just realpolitik. There simply is no political will to change it, and so it's doesn't change. The vast majority of the electorate doesn't know, and even if they did, they probably wouldn't care; just like I don't care. Your big philosophical boner is a non-issue, and it's not a hill worth fighting for, let alone dying on.

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28-12-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
EK. You are far too advanced to argue with this lemon.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-12-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 09:56 AM)Banjo Wrote:  EK. You are far too advanced to argue with this lemon.


I don't do it for his benefit, I do if for the sake of the internet.

*salute*

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28-12-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 08:02 AM)frankksj Wrote:  Remember this started because you took such offense at my belief that if Americans don't like being part of the US system, they should be allowed to just leave and be free of it.

Let the records show that I've never voiced this supposed opinion, indeed I've only had a single post in this thread to this point, and the defendant is thus guilty of projection on an epic scale. Plus, he's a lying piece of shit.... What position? I haven't stated one....

Let the record show in this thread post #50, when I said every other country (except ISIS and N Korea) "tell their citizens that if they're not getting a good value they're free to leave" the defendant responded: "How quintessentially right-wing. Don't like it? You can leave! *spitoon*"

Therefore the defendant is either a lying piece of shit or genuinely doesn't remember what position he too yesterday. I didn't put words in your mouth--those are your words verbatim.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Really? Their expansionism is what makes them offensive? If only they were genocidal religiously extreme libertarians, would they then be honky-dory?

Yes, if they said "these are the (barbaric) rules if you choose to live in this community, and is up to you whether you voluntarily subject yourself to them or not", then ISIS would be honky-dory in my opinion. That which makes them evil is they share your belief that people should be forced to participate in their system against their will.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  There are bigger problem to spend my time on

No, there is no bigger issue since one cannot debate what government should do until we agree what government is. And with any arrangement, the ability to leave _IS_ what defines that relationship. It's the difference between being an employee vs. a slave. Between visiting a hotel and going to prison. If I invite you to my home for dinner, can you think of a more important issue than if (a) you're free to leave at any point, or (b) once you enter I will dictate what you must do for the rest of your life as compensation for said meal and if you don't comply, haul you back at gunpoint and lock you in a cell?

This single issue is what determines if government SERVES the people or OWNS the people. The reason we cannot agree on what government works best is we cannot agree on what government is. It may only affect a few people you don't care about, but it is the most basic fundamental issue that must be resolved before anything else.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Be careful using worlds like "all", as in "all other developed countries government exists to serve the people", because all you need is a single counter example to shoot down your entire assertion.

So, how about North Korea? Or, the People's Republic of China? The Russian Federation? How about Vatican City?

I deliberately used "ALL" because the fact is ALL developed countries, including the UN human rights declaration, assert that is the most basic, fundamental right to leave one's country no string attached. As I've said, only ISIS, N. Korea, the US democrats, and now Jonestown, currently have put in place policies to prevent this.

That is a fact.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For starters, both the Democrats and Republicans support taxation

No, Republicans have said taxation is what one pays for government services--if you don't like the services, you're free to leave. Democrats have said taxation is the state having ownership of one's economic output for life, and is disconnected from any services, because you pay it whether you live in the country and use those services or not.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  For as 'far left' as you apparently think we already are, our most pressing border concern has been and yet remains immigration. We are not East Germany or the rest of the Soviet Bloc

To the republicans, yes. They're paranoid that Mexican "rapists" will enter the country (even though Mexicans have a lower rate of rape than Americans). Democrats, in my observation, don't get too outraged over immigration, but they DO go ape-shit crazy when someone like Eduardo Saverin tries to emigrate, pushing through legislation like the EX-patriot act to prevent emigration.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I mean, there are a thousand and one things I can think of that are of a more pressing concern than expatriation taxation reform.

I agree the impact is trivial. HOWEVER, the fundamental concept of whether government SERVES the people or OWNS the people is, IMO, what needs to be resolved before any meaningful discussion on how government should work.

(28-12-2015 09:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's not a fucking evil coercion cabal you stupid fuck, it's just realpolitik.

When Bobby Fischer was hauled off at gunpoint and locked up for trying to defect, that's not coercion? Try looking up the word in a dictionary.
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28-12-2015, 11:04 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 08:51 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  If he was still here he could have some free Free Speech, on us.

Actually where I live, unlike the US, we DO have free speech. For example, in the US when Larry Page (Google's CEO) wanted to discuss how Google was being forced by the US to hand over customers' data through secret FISA court orders, something the public didn't even know was happening until Snowden exposed it, he was given a secret court order to keep his mouth shut or else he would get hauled off at gunpoint in the middle of the night.

Where I live, you can say what you want, and the government never threatens people with violence to keep them from exposing the government's dirty laundry.
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28-12-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: Why do US democrats still advocate slavery (literally)?
(28-12-2015 08:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Are you even trying? Renounce your U.S. citizenship and you will be free.

Of course I'm trying. I am married to a foreigner. But they require 12 years of residency to get a second citizenship and thus be allowed to renounce US citizenship. I am counting the days until I can kick your barbaric war-mongering system to the curb and no longer be forced at gunpoint to fund the systemic massacre of millions of innocent people in the middle east.
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