Why do atheists become atheists?
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19-01-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 12:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 09:52 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  It has specifically to do with the necessary relationship between a conscious subject and its objects.
Apparently, as the myth goes, the god is complete (perfect) with no requirements. There is no necessary relationship between the consciousness of the god and any existent objects.

I think you must remember that the theists haven't provided a falsifiable definition of god.
You are presenting a strawman. Disproving the strawman then flying back to your pigeon coup and claiming victory to your mates.


Another thing that you are assuming is that the definition of god requires the god to have created existence.
There are many mythological gods that didn't create the universe. How do you disprove them?

Laughing. God is shrinking by the minute! Now it can't create anything and it has no relationship with anything that exists (objects of consciousness). Well, I agree with you, God has no relation to anything that exists.

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19-01-2015, 02:51 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 01:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Laughing. God is shrinking by the minute! Now it can't create anything and it has no relationship with anything that exists (objects of consciousness). Well, I agree with you, God has no relation to anything that exists.
I said "There is no necessary relationship " not that there is never a relationship.
You have made a claim that consciousness requires existent objects (a necessary relationship). So your whole argument hangs off this "by necessity" claim.
It's much like Christian apologetics where they try to argue for the existence of god "by necessity".
Assumption - You can't have infinities
Assumption - something can't begin to exist without a cause
Conclusion by necessity - therefore god.

I really don't see anything different with your argument style.
Assumption - God is defined as a consciousness that created existence
Assumption - Consciousness can't exist without having a relationship to existing objects.
Assumption - Existing objects began to exist
Conclusion by necessity - therefore consciousness must have began to exist after existing objects began to exist.

Lot's of unfounded assumptions, resulting in a conclusion matching the author's already held beliefs. Not a shred of evidence was provided, no observations or tests necessary. Just mental masturbation.
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19-01-2015, 05:44 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
I knew something was afoot when I asked my mom to square dinosaurs and millions of years with the Noah's Ark story.

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19-01-2015, 06:10 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 01:40 PM)Free Wrote:  The same way I did with the application of Evidence of Absence which mathematically demonstrates conclusively that no supernatural gods exist, or could possibility exist.

It does not mathematically prove anything.

Quote:It has not gone unnoticed by me that no one here has actually disputed the application of Evidence of Absence, but rather simply deny it. Deny it fails miserably unless it has been successfully disputed.

Cool

You have simply asserted it and proffered a flawed 'proof'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2015, 06:24 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 06:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 01:40 PM)Free Wrote:  The same way I did with the application of Evidence of Absence which mathematically demonstrates conclusively that no supernatural gods exist, or could possibility exist.

It does not mathematically prove anything.

Yes it does. It already did. You simply don't know how.

Quote:It has not gone unnoticed by me that no one here has actually disputed the application of Evidence of Absence, but rather simply deny it. Deny it fails miserably unless it has been successfully disputed.

Cool
Quote:You have simply asserted it and proffered a flawed 'proof'.

Now that is an assertion. Prove it is flawed.

Cool

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19-01-2015, 07:02 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 01:40 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 12:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Apparently, as the myth goes, the god is complete (perfect) with no requirements. There is no necessary relationship between the consciousness of the god and any existent objects.

I think you must remember that the theists haven't provided a falsifiable definition of god.
You are presenting a strawman. Disproving the strawman then flying back to your pigeon coup and claiming victory to your mates.


Another thing that you are assuming is that the definition of god requires the god to have created existence.
There are many mythological gods that didn't create the universe. How do you disprove them?

The same way I did with the application of Evidence of Absence which mathematically demonstrates conclusively that no supernatural gods exist, or could possibility exist.

It has not gone unnoticed by me that no one here has actually disputed the application of Evidence of Absence, but rather simply deny it. Deny it fails miserably unless it has been successfully disputed.

Cool

You were clearly not paying attention. The absence of evidence is only indicative, it is not proof regardless of your assertion. You have not 'mathematically proved' anything.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 06:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 06:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  It does not mathematically prove anything.

Yes it does. It already did. You simply don't know how.

Quote:It has not gone unnoticed by me that no one here has actually disputed the application of Evidence of Absence, but rather simply deny it. Deny it fails miserably unless it has been successfully disputed.

Cool
Quote:You have simply asserted it and proffered a flawed 'proof'.

Now that is an assertion. Prove it is flawed.

Cool

The absence of evidence is only evidence of absence - not proof. Regardless of how strongly the evidence convinces you, it is not proof.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2015, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2015 07:34 PM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 01:40 PM)Free Wrote:  The same way I did with the application of Evidence of Absence which mathematically demonstrates conclusively that no supernatural gods exist, or could possibility exist.

It has not gone unnoticed by me that no one here has actually disputed the application of Evidence of Absence, but rather simply deny it. Deny it fails miserably unless it has been successfully disputed.

Cool

You were clearly not paying attention. The absence of evidence is only indicative, it is not proof regardless of your assertion. You have not 'mathematically proved' anything.

You seem to be constantly confused between Evidence of Absence and absence of evidence.

1. Evidence (proof) of Absence (something that should be there but isn't.)

This is proof.


2. Absence (something not there) of Evidence (proof).

This is an absence of proof.


They are two entirely different things.

And the math is within the links I supplied on This Post under Propositional Calculus.

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19-01-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(19-01-2015 07:17 PM)Free Wrote:  
(19-01-2015 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  You were clearly not paying attention. The absence of evidence is only indicative, it is not proof regardless of your assertion. You have not 'mathematically proved' anything.

You seem to be constantly confused between Evidence of Absence and absence of evidence.

1. Evidence (proof) of Absence (something that should be there but isn't.)

This is proof.

No, it's not. You are assuming what evidence should exist; that is unfounded.
If a deity created the Big Bang, what evidence would you deem must be there that is absent?

Quote:2. Absence (something not there) of Evidence (proof).

This is an absence of proof.


They are two entirely different things.

And the math is within the links I supplied on This Post under Propositional Calculus.

I followed. The error is primarily in your assumptions.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-01-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
"Why do atheists become atheists?"

They have a good union. Good shift differential and weekend differential benefits.
It's all about the money. Drinking Beverage

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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