Why do atheists become atheists?
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21-01-2015, 02:23 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  Since you are lacking knowledge about the possibility of a god existing, then you simply don't know whether a god exists or not.

That means it is possible a god does exist, and possible that a god doesn't exist.

That doesn't follow. Assume I make these two claims:
a. I do not know if it is possible for a god to exist
b. I do not know that it is impossible for a god to exist

I am not holding that there is a possibility that a god exists; I have no belief that it is possible and I have no belief that it is impossible. You could try to say it means that I think it is possible that it is possible for a god to exist but that doesn't get you anywhere because it just means that I don't know if it is possible that it is possible or that it is impossible that it is possible.

Not having any criteria on which to base a conclusion regarding the possibility it is rational to not hold a belief one way or the other. That does not require admitting it is possible, only that you have no idea if it is possible or not. Is it possible for a god to exist? I don't know.

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21-01-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 02:23 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  Since you are lacking knowledge about the possibility of a god existing, then you simply don't know whether a god exists or not.

That means it is possible a god does exist, and possible that a god doesn't exist.

That doesn't follow. Assume I make these two claims:
a. I do not know if it is possible for a god to exist.

Just because you do not know if it is possible for a god to exist, does that in any way at all eliminate the possibility?

Quote:b. I do not know that it is impossible for a god to exist.

Just because you do not know if it is possible for a god to exist, does that in any way at all eliminate the impossibility?

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21-01-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  Since you are lacking knowledge about the possibility of a god existing, then you simply don't know whether a god exists or not.
Correct, lack of knowlege = I don't know.
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  That means it is possible a god does exist, and possible that a god doesn't exist.
No.
No claim has been made as to what is possible.

This probably is a symmantic thing.
"possible" is the opposite of "impossible"

In order to work out if something is possible or not, we need much evidence and understandings.
for example, to answer the question "Is it possible for a bird to grow to a size of 10 meters tall?"
If we don't know, we can't simply state, "yeah, it's possible"
What we would need to do is to discuss this with biologists. They might be able to shed some light onto why birds have constraints regarding their height and what that maximum height might be. They would have to look at many different factors, look at evidence before they could calculate whether it is possible or not.
We can't just use our ignorance and credulity to assert that it is possible.
"I don't know" is a valid answer and it doesn't make any claims regarding possibilities.
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21-01-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 03:13 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  Since you are lacking knowledge about the possibility of a god existing, then you simply don't know whether a god exists or not.
Correct, lack of knowlege = I don't know.
(21-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  That means it is possible a god does exist, and possible that a god doesn't exist.
No.
No claim has been made as to what is possible.

It is not a matter of a claim; it is necessarily implicit. If you do not know, then you cannot eliminate either the possibility nor impossibility.

Full stop.

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21-01-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
"Just because you do not know if it is possible for a god to exist, does that in any way at all eliminate the possibility?"

What negates the plausibility and possibility of the existence of a god is that no one knows how to asses the probability or possibility of something without any evidence for its existence (or even a hint of it mathematically in the case of something like the Higgs particle).

So, until some reason exists to demonstrate that a god is possible (direct or indirect evidence), it is deemed not possible and (by default) nonexistent.

It should be further considered by default to not exist given that the definitions of god postulated by man are almost always not falsifiable or even testable. Making it impossible to ever even attain any evidence (direct or indirect) as to whether or not it is possible or plausible. The god concepts are indistinguishable from fairy tale. They exist in the imagination.

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21-01-2015, 03:35 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
"It is not a matter of a claim; it is necessarily implicit. If you do not know, then you cannot eliminate either the possibility nor impossibility.

Full stop."

Incorrect. If you cannot support the possibility or plausibility, you can't say it is possible.

Not only full stop, but the absence of all molecular motion at absolute zero

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21-01-2015, 03:36 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Because (by your reasoning), you'd have to say that it is possible that pink and fluffy unicorns may come flying from my anus and deliver me a pizza.

Just because my mind can conceive of it in my imagination, doesn't mean it is possible or plausible outside of it.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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21-01-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 03:27 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Just because you do not know if it is possible for a god to exist, does that in any way at all eliminate the possibility?"

What negates the plausibility and possibility of the existence of a god is that no one knows how to asses the probability or possibility of something without any evidence for its existence (or even a hint of it mathematically in the case of something like the Higgs particle).

Again, this demonstrates yet more lack of knowledge. And again, the lack of knowledge does not eliminate the possibility or impossibility.

Even if you do not know how to assess the possibility or impossibility due to a lack of direct evidence supporting existence, it by no means eliminates the possibility or impossibility of existence.

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21-01-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 03:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because (by your reasoning), you'd have to say that it is possible that pink and fluffy unicorns may come flying from my anus and deliver me a pizza.

Just because my mind can conceive of it in my imagination, doesn't mean it is possible or plausible outside of it.

Despite what you think about all this, you are actually confirming my point in regards to why I am 7.0 on the Dawkin's Scale.

lol

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21-01-2015, 03:42 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(21-01-2015 03:39 PM)Free Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 03:27 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Just because you do not know if it is possible for a god to exist, does that in any way at all eliminate the possibility?"

What negates the plausibility and possibility of the existence of a god is that no one knows how to asses the probability or possibility of something without any evidence for its existence (or even a hint of it mathematically in the case of something like the Higgs particle).

Again, this demonstrates yet more lack of knowledge. And again, the lack of knowledge does not eliminate the possibility or impossibility.

Even if you do not know how to assess the possibility or impossibility due to a lack of direct evidence supporting existence, it by no means eliminates the possibility or impossibility of existence.

Like I said, no one in history has ever demonstrated the knowledge necessary to postulate a probability or possibility of a god.

The burden of proof remains on those making god claims.

And the argument isn't that ignorance = impossible, the argument is that lack of knowledge = burden of proof not met, which = possibility and probability remain ~0.

Like I said, the ability to perceive of it in the imagination does not mean its probability immediately exceeds 0.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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