Why do atheists become atheists?
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22-01-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 05:14 PM)Free Wrote:  Whenever you say "I don't know," you are agnostic. Period.

What is one called who says (not that we don't know, but)
... it is not possible for us to know ?

If someone says "it is not possible" it implies a couple of different things.

Firstly, it assumes that the knowledge exists in the first place, but it is somehow impossible for us to know. Since it indirectly implies that there is knowledge in existence, it is therefore a positive claim. Hence, the burden of proof is therefore upon that claimant to provide evidence that there is knowledge in existence that is impossible to know.

So good luck with that.

Secondly, if it is not possible to know, it therefore means that the knowledge itself is impossible. If something is impossible, it therefore cannot exist. The word "impossible" is universally defined as "not possible." Hence, whenever someone is saying that "it is not possible" they are really saying "it is impossible."

Therefore, if something is impossible, it cannot exist.

So, anyone who says "it is not possible to know" is deluding themselves in regards to reality, because the logistics of such a statement do not even exist due to the fact that entire statement itself contradicts itself.

After all, if something is impossible to know it immediately eliminates the possibility of any kind of knowledge to exist for the simple reason that the supposed knowledge is not possible.

It's a ridiculous and hilarious statement, really.

Big Grin

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22-01-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:34 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  7.0 does not equal a "belief" whatsoever. There is a difference between having a belief and stating something as being factual.
If you can provide compelling evidence in support of your assertion then it is a fact. If you have no evidence then your assertion is a belief.
Therefore, 7.0 = a belief that there is no god.
You can't even provide a falsifiable definition of god.

The burden of proof is upon you, not me. Since there is not a single shred of evidence anywhere to demonstrate even the possibility of any kind of supernatural entity existing, then it is in fact intellectually honest to claim as fact that there is no God.

It is intellectually dishonest to claim or insinuate that any kind of supernatural god is possible when there is not a single shred of evidence to support that assertion.

In my opinion, anybody below 7.0 is intellectually dishonest. They are not dealing with reality, but merely asserting possibilities when no evidence exists whatsoever to support any such possibility.

Quote:
(21-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  It is not, "I believe there is no God." That would be you, at a 6.0.
My position is one of lacking belief. I make no claims.

That's fine, but if you are below 7.0 with absolutely no reason or evidence to be there, you are intellectually dishonest. You have no good fucking reason to suggest possibilities when you have no fucking evidence to support it.

Quote:
(21-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  No. Those who are not 100% convinced that God does not exist are in the 6.0 category. You could be 99.99999% convinced that God does not exist, but because that is not 100%, it means you would have a 00.00001% belief that it is possible that God exists.
Nope. I have no beliefs with regards to whether gods are possible or not. I have no knowledge and no belief on the matter.
I cannot say that gods are possible because there isn't a falsifiable testable definition of what a god is. I'm not saying that gods are possible and I'm not saying that gods are impossible. I am saying "I don't know" and I don't know = I don't know.

Yes you fucking do have beliefs, no matter how you spin it. You have absolutely no fucking reason or evidence whatsoever to support any position below 7.0 and you somehow think it is intellectually honest to be in that position?

It's a fucking lying position to be, and I expect more from people who claim themselves to be atheists when in fact they are demonstrating the exact same bullshit as theists.

Theists say, "You can't prove God doesn't exist," and here on this very forum I am seeing so-called 'atheists saying the same fucking bullshit.

If you are not 7.0, you are not a fucking atheist whatsoever. You are hanging on to hope, when it doesn't exist. You are grasping at some thread because you haven't got the fucking guts to be a true atheist.


Quote:
(21-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  I find it logically impossible that you constantly fail to understand the concept.
It's because you have a very poor grasp of logic.

You have no fucking logic at all. You assert some possibility of existence when you have no evidence whatsoever to support it. Not only is that wholly illogical, intellectually dishonest, it fucking borders on utter stupidity.

You sit there arguing with no evidence whatsoever to support your argument, and say I don't use logic? Are you fucking retarded or what?

Quote:
(21-01-2015 09:02 PM)Free Wrote:  Let's say you are 60% certain that God's existence is possible. That means that you are 40% certain his existence is not possible.
Then you don't know whether it is possible or not. You are pulling figures out your arse.

And you are a fucking intellectually honest retard.

Show me fucking evidence to support your sub -7.0 position, or stay fucking intellectually dishonest.

Quote:Let's say that I have no idea whether a god's existence is possible or not. I cannot evaluate the odds until someone provides me with a falsifiable and testable definition.

Burden of proof. Learn what it means for fuck sakes.


Since the rest of what you are saying only demonstrates more of your gross intellectual dishonesty, and paints you up to be a fucking liar, you won't need any more help from me to demonstrate it further.

Grab a fucking brain, theist.

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22-01-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Free, you seem to be taking the terms "I don't believe" and "I don't know" from other posters and mashing them together to fit your own agenda.

You're a smart guy (probably a lot smarter than me) but you don't have all the answers, and claiming to know with certainty that no "god" exists is as asinine as those that claim they know "god" exists with certainty.

A Christian can show me as much physical evidence as you can...none.
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22-01-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 09:43 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Free, you seem to be taking the terms "I don't believe" and "I don't know" from other posters and mashing them together to fit your own agenda.

You're a smart guy (probably a lot smarter than me) but you don't have all the answers, and claiming to know with certainty that no "god" exists is as asinine as those that claim they know "god" exists with certainty.

A Christian can show me as much physical evidence as you can...none.

I am not required to show anybody any physical evidence of something that has none to show.

To assert that it is possible that such evidence exists necessarily invokes the burden of proof upon anyone making that claim. If they cannot meet that burden of proof, then they are in the exact same position as a theist.

When I say "God does not exist," it is perfectly justified due to a lack of any evidence whatsoever to the contrary. The evidence to support my claim is the evidence of the absence of positive physical evidence.

The only way my position can be disputed in any way whatsoever is to provide physical evidence of the possible existence of a supernatural entity known as God.

And THAT is intellectual honesty.

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22-01-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  If you are not 7.0, you are not a fucking atheist whatsoever.

Fucking Free, is there any position on your selector switch between asleep and full auto or what? Tongue

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22-01-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Claiming that others are being intellectually dishonest because they are not arrogant enough to make faith based claims of knowledge, well it sounds like you're taking this a little personal.

I don't think anybody is attempting to place the burden of proof upon you to provide evidence for the "god claims" of others, but I don't think it's unfair that if you are going to make the claim that "no gods exist" as a fact, than at minimum, you should provide your definition of "god", so that others debating your claim have a starting point.
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22-01-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 10:02 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 09:41 AM)Free Wrote:  If you are not 7.0, you are not a fucking atheist whatsoever.

Fucking Free, is there any position on your selector switch between asleep and full auto or what? Tongue

No. I am a full blooded atheist and will defend that position to my death. Some people here don't like it, but I am what I am and I am damn proud to be fully atheistic.

Big Grin

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22-01-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 10:05 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Claiming that others are being intellectually dishonest because they are not arrogant enough to make faith based claims of knowledge, well it sounds like you're taking this a little personal.

I don't think anybody is attempting to place the burden of proof upon you to provide evidence for the "god claims" of others, but I don't think it's unfair that if you are going to make the claim that "no gods exist" as a fact, than at minimum, you should provide your definition of "god", so that others debating your claim have a starting point.

It is not a matter of arrogance, but rather a matter of what the truth is. I am not making any kind of "faith based claim" whatsoever. That is a misrepresentation of the truth and an out-and-out lie.

There is no God, because there is no evidence to support its existence, or even the possibility of its existence.

That's not arrogance. That is not faith based. That is a fact based upon the evidence of the absence of any positive proof of any such god being in existence in any way whatsoever.

There's nothing to believe, so no faith can be applied.

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22-01-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Being outlandish for a moment:

Taking from the plot of "Prometheus" and a lot of the Ancient Alien theories, say that we did discover that a highly evolved, sentient species was responsible for the origins of life on Earth. This all falls in the realm of naturally and theoretically possible (I think), so how would we classify this alien life? Are they "gods" to us?
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22-01-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 10:17 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  Being outlandish for a moment:

Taking from the plot of "Prometheus" and a lot of the Ancient Alien theories, say that we did discover that a highly evolved, sentient species was responsible for the origins of life on Earth. This all falls in the realm of naturally and theoretically possible (I think), so how would we classify this alien life? Are they "gods" to us?

We cannot make that comparison to the the supernatural entity that is the focus of this discussion.

We are speaking specifically of a supernatural entity commonly referred to as God by at least 3 of the major religions; Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

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