Why do atheists become atheists?
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22-01-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:09 PM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 11:58 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  The claim of absolute knowledge exists also if you say that certainly no gods exist. But I don't think anyone of us holds absolute knowledge, right?

It is not unreasonable to say "God does not exist" when there is no evidence to support existence of any kind. It is no more dishonest to say "God does not exist" than it is to say "1000 pink elephants are living in your anus."

It is absolutely just as intellectually dishonest to say "You cannot prove God doesn't exist" as it is to say, "You cannot prove that 1000 pink elephants are living in your anus."

Both accusations shift the burden of proof, are fallacious, and therefore are intellectually dishonest.

The burden of proof is always upon the one claiming existence, and never on anyone else.

It is unreasonable and it's also fallacious. You have been accusing others of committing fallacies, without realizing that your whole position is an Argument from Ignorance.

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22-01-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:09 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:05 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I'm not sure how I feel about the term "absolute knowledge". That's why atheism, IMO, is merely a rejection of that claim without evidence.

Ok, but I don't think any human can claim to have a complete and absolute knowledge of a topic or subject. Any subject.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I get hung up on that term "absolute knowledge". Just like with "God" claims, absolute knowledge introduces an element of semantics.
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22-01-2015, 12:19 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  It strikes me how ironic it is that most of us here, except for Free, are arguing for the improbable possibility of a creator being. Blink

It's because we are not True Atheists™. Drinking Beverage

Well fuck it, now I have to find another forum Weeping

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22-01-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:10 PM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  There was a time when we knew nothing about the existence of DNA. So, if someone back then had introduced the concept in some rudimentary form as a possibility, you would have said they were intellectually dishonest because there was not one shred of evidence at that time for the existence of DNA. Drinking Beverage

This is a false comparison. You are comparing something that exists in nature with something that does not; supernatural.

And your comparison to "1000 pink elephants are living in your anus" is utterly fallacious because that is a testable, falsifiable claim.

You need to attend Remedial Logic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-01-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:10 PM)Free Wrote:  This is a false comparison. You are comparing something that exists in nature with something that does not; supernatural.

No it's not. You know now that DNA exists. But back before we knew anything about it, you probably would have said it doesn't with as much certainty as you do now about "god". The point is, just because we currently have no evidence of anything supernatural doesn't mean something supernatural doesn't exist somewhere in some distant corner of the universe. So, while it makes sense to say "I see no evidence for anything supernatural", it's ludicrous to claim with any certainty that "nothing supernatural exists anywhere". It's not intellectually dishonest to recognize the possibility, but claiming you know what you can't (currently) know is.

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22-01-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:10 PM)Free Wrote:  This is a false comparison. You are comparing something that exists in nature with something that does not; supernatural.

"...something that does not"

Consider and you know this for certain because why?

Because there has never been a single shred of evidence to support anything existing in a supernatural state. This is called "evidence of the absence of evidence." This differs from "absence of evidence is not evidence" because evidence of absence is evidence itself, where the absence of evidence is not evidence at all.

Since there is negative proof, there is negative in existence. Existence is defined as that which can be detected in some way. If it cannot be detected in nature- such as something that cannot naturally exist such as supernatural- then it does not meet the requirement to determine existence.


Quote:BTW no one knew that black swans existed in nature until one was found.

False comparison; natural verses supernatural.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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22-01-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  It strikes me how ironic it is that most of us here, except for Free, are arguing for the improbable possibility of a creator being. Blink

It's because we are not True Atheists™. Drinking Beverage

No true atheist?Dodgy
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22-01-2015, 12:25 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Mood lightener...

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22-01-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:09 PM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 11:58 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  The claim of absolute knowledge exists also if you say that certainly no gods exist. But I don't think anyone of us holds absolute knowledge, right?

It is not unreasonable to say "God does not exist" when there is no evidence to support existence of any kind. It is no more dishonest to say "God does not exist" than it is to say "1000 pink elephants are living in your anus."

It is absolutely just as intellectually dishonest to say "You cannot prove God doesn't exist" as it is to say, "You cannot prove that 1000 pink elephants are living in your anus."

Both accusations shift the burden of proof, are fallacious, and therefore are intellectually dishonest.

The burden of proof is always upon the one claiming existence, and never on anyone else.

Change "1000 pink elephants in your anus" for Black swans and now you see the problem with your absolutism.

I'm not asking for proof of anything but I'm not totally discounting the infinitesimal possibility. I'll go on living my life as though gods do not exist without saying that they absolutely do not.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-01-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(22-01-2015 12:22 PM)Free Wrote:  
(22-01-2015 12:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "...something that does not"

Consider and you know this for certain because why?

Because there has never been a single shred of evidence to support anything existing in a supernatural state. This is called "evidence of the absence of evidence." This differs from "absence of evidence is not evidence" because evidence of absence is evidence itself, where the absence of evidence is not evidence at all.

Since there is negative proof, there is negative in existence. Existence is defined as that which can be detected in some way. If it cannot be detected in nature- such as something that cannot naturally exist such as supernatural- then it does not meet the requirement to determine existence.


Quote:BTW no one knew that black swans existed in nature until one was found.

False comparison; natural verses supernatural.

You are assuming that some god must be 'supernatural'. If a god exists, then is it not part of nature?

How many other unspoken assumptions are you making?

Pro tip: Consider that not one person here has accepted your 'proof' or your claim. Ponder it.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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