Why do atheists become atheists?
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24-01-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
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(23-01-2015 07:18 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  If I can imagine something then it is possible.
Perhaps you are falling for the same fallacy as Free is.

I propagated no fallacy.

Quote:I have not made a claim that my scenarios are possible. I admit to imagining them up. Pulling them out my arse, so to speak.

Yep, you've been pulling things out of your arse.

Quote:These scenarios might be possible or they might be impossible. I don't have the means to validate them so I don't know whether they are possible or not.

Then why even state them as some means to defend your position? All those scenarios are invalid when you cannot support them as part of your argument. Therefore, since they are all invalid, then your argument is without support, and it of itself completely invalid.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 01:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:00 PM)Free Wrote:  You cannot defend yourself. Instead, you use ad homs.
Ad homs, you dumb fuck. Read the post again.

If i tell you that I don't know if it is possible or not, then why do you ask me to "define those possiblities?"
Your question is logically absurd given what I have told you about my position.

You still don't understand.

So far you claim to be agnostic because you don't know whether any kind of supernatural god exists or not.

You also claim that you don't know whether or not it is even possible for a supernatural god to exist.

Hence, you are claiming complete and total ignorance on the issue.

Therefore, if you are using total ignorance on the subject, how then can you justify even being an agnostic about something you don't know anything about?

How do you make the decision to be agnostic when you claim to have no knowledge?

After all, if you truly "do not know," you wouldn't fit anywhere on the Dawkin's Scale at all.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 01:31 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:These scenarios might be possible or they might be impossible. I don't have the means to validate them so I don't know whether they are possible or not.

Then why even state them as some means to defend your position? All those scenarios are invalid when you cannot support them as part of your argument. Therefore, since they are all invalid, then your argument is without support, and it of itself completely invalid.
If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims.

In order to prove that god can't exist you need to meet the conditions of the falsifiable criteria. They haven't offered falsifiable criteria so you can't meet those conditions.
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24-01-2015, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 01:48 PM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 01:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:31 PM)Free Wrote:  Then why even state them as some means to defend your position? All those scenarios are invalid when you cannot support them as part of your argument. Therefore, since they are all invalid, then your argument is without support, and it of itself completely invalid.
If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims.

No.

You make the positive claim, then you must prove the claim, because you have the burden of proof. If you cannot demonstrate any of your conceptualizations as being grounded in reality, then all they are, are figments of your imagination.

Quote:In order to prove that god can't exist you need to meet the conditions of the falsifiable criteria. They haven't offered falsifiable criteria so you can't meet those conditions.

It's been met in an earlier post. The only available evidence is the evidence of absence. It can be falsifiable by simply ... *gasp* ... demonstrating the existence of a supernatural entity commonly known as God.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:41 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims.

No.

You make the positive claim, then you must prove the claim, because you have the burden of proof. If you cannot demonstrate any of your conceptualizations as being grounded in reality, then all they are, are figments of your imagination.

If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

Anyway, it's pointless talking to you.
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24-01-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  No.

You make the positive claim, then you must prove the claim, because you have the burden of proof. If you cannot demonstrate any of your conceptualizations as being grounded in reality, then all they are, are figments of your imagination.

If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

Anyway, it's pointless talking to you.


Stevil, no. This has been explained to you oh so many, many times on this forum.

damn!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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24-01-2015, 02:26 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 02:30 PM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:44 PM)Free Wrote:  No.

You make the positive claim, then you must prove the claim, because you have the burden of proof. If you cannot demonstrate any of your conceptualizations as being grounded in reality, then all they are, are figments of your imagination.

If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

Anyway, it's pointless talking to you.

At this moment in time, you dislike me.

But I swear by the FSM that as time goes on, and the things regarding logic begin to sink in, there will come a day when you will privately thank people like me.

Right now? No. Not a chance.

But later? Yes, because you will realize the truth.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 04:16 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 02:26 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

Anyway, it's pointless talking to you.

At this moment in time, you dislike me.

But I swear by the FSM that as time goes on, and the things regarding logic begin to sink in, there will come a day when you will privately thank people like me.

Right now? No. Not a chance.

But later? Yes, because you will realize the truth.


yanno what Free...that is so true. That happened with the artist formerly known as Taq. When he BLISTERED me long ago & far away I was so pissed, so hurt, so insulted. But he spoke the truth. And I will be forever grateful to him.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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24-01-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 04:16 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 02:26 PM)Free Wrote:  At this moment in time, you dislike me.

But I swear by the FSM that as time goes on, and the things regarding logic begin to sink in, there will come a day when you will privately thank people like me.

Right now? No. Not a chance.

But later? Yes, because you will realize the truth.


yanno what Free...that is so true. That happened with the artist formerly known as Taq. When he BLISTERED me long ago & far away I was so pissed, so hurt, so insulted. But he spoke the truth. And I will be forever grateful to him.

Yep, same here. Back in the 90s on those archaic style forms, is where I leaned how to use reasoning and logic. I escaped conceptualizations and learned what reality actually is.

I took a lot of hits learning it, but at the end it was all true. I was angry at my adversaries and fought tooth and nail to preserve my concepts. But when i realized that they were only unsupported concepts it was like a big light went off in my head.

It didn't take long after that to become proficient with reasoning and logic. All that pain helped me to gain a far greater insight into how we view things.

Most times even today I can get very frustrated speaking to people who don't use much in the way of legitimate reasoning. I'm not saying I am infallible, because I still learn new things every day which correct me. The learning is endless.

Fortunately on this forum most of the members do employ excellent reasoning skills. Many seem to be more proficient with it then I am, which is good because they can teach me things I am unaware of.

I'll forever be grateful to those who helped me along so many years ago.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 02:16 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 02:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

Anyway, it's pointless talking to you.


Stevil, no. This has been explained to you oh so many, many times on this forum.

damn!

Nope. Stevil is correct. The one who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Period.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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