Why do atheists become atheists?
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13-01-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(12-01-2015 06:39 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  What is it that causes some people to accept that their faith is wrong, while others who see the exact same evidence, can't accept that?
Don't know. I have never been one.

My guess is that it takes a lot of effort to make a specific type of theist.
Church visits, bible study, social stigma, fear of hell, fear of being excluded from the group, fear of damaging relationships with family and friends and social circles, low self confidence(manufactured by the religious folk), willingness to follow and obey authority, willingness not to dig too deep regarding trying to understand things.
Young children especially are just ripe for indoctrination. With regards to adults the most likely candidates are those going through some form of confidence or identity crisis.

For "smart" adult theists it possibly comes down to confirmation bias allowing them to choose incredulity and naive intuition over putting effort into getting their head around things such as evolution, secular ideas of morality or behaviour etc.

One thing that is common for theists and atheists alike is the general resistance to change. Most of us don't want to be proven wrong, don't want to learn that we have been living a lie in the past several years of our lives.

But I don't think it can be underestimated how strongly our view of the world is coloured by our beliefs. Theists often, over years of indoctrination see many inter-related aspects from their taught perspective. To try and get them to view a world without god, many, many, many understandings must be rebuilt.

I mean if you prove to them that A is independant of god then they think how can A be independant of god because A relies upon B, C, D, E, F and all those are dependent on there being a god, plus B relies upon G, H, I and G relies upon J, K, L and all these things depend on there being a god. You can't simply strip god from A, you need to strip god away from all these things before they will consider the possibility of no god seriously.

It's not often you hear a atheist talk about their deconversion as if it was based on learning one thing, a light bulb turning on and then them admitting how silly they had been to believe. It's generally a story involving years of doubt, years of investigation and often trying different flavours of their religion or even other religions, intrepidly dipping their toes into "agnostic" thoughts before admitting that they are now an atheist
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13-01-2015, 02:59 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 01:30 PM)Free Wrote:  I find agnostic Atheism to be very very silly. I mean ... think about this:

Can you say that all the other gods never existed and be certain of it? How about any one of the thousands of gods that have come and gone over the course of history?

If you are a 100% atheist against all the other gods in history, what excuse do you have for not taking it just 1 god further and being 100% atheist about the Christian god?

What's the fucking problem people?

I am a 7.0 on the Dawkins Scale, and the reason I am 7.0 is that I am just as certain that the Christian god does not exist as I am about any one of the thousands of other gods do not exist.

I am a mother fucking hard-core atheist and damn proud of it.

Drinking Beverage

It's not just about the Christian god - it's any gods at all.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 03:33 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 02:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 01:30 PM)Free Wrote:  I find agnostic Atheism to be very very silly. I mean ... think about this:

Can you say that all the other gods never existed and be certain of it? How about any one of the thousands of gods that have come and gone over the course of history?

If you are a 100% atheist against all the other gods in history, what excuse do you have for not taking it just 1 god further and being 100% atheist about the Christian god?

What's the fucking problem people?

I am a 7.0 on the Dawkins Scale, and the reason I am 7.0 is that I am just as certain that the Christian god does not exist as I am about any one of the thousands of other gods do not exist.

I am a mother fucking hard-core atheist and damn proud of it.

Drinking Beverage

It's not just about the Christian god - it's any gods at all.

Yeah, that's my point. If we, as atheists, are going to say we are "agnostic" atheists, then we must also say we are agnostic about Zeus, Thor, Venus, etc.

That is simply unreasonable to me.

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13-01-2015, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2015 08:27 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 03:33 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 02:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's not just about the Christian god - it's any gods at all.

Yeah, that's my point. If we, as atheists, are going to say we are "agnostic" atheists, then we must also say we are agnostic about Zeus, Thor, Venus, etc.

That is simply unreasonable to me.

I don’t agree with you on this. I can do away with every god ever dreamt up by mankind and still leave an infitesimal window open for the possibility that a creator being of undetermined qualities exists.

OK, after I read that I’m now a 6.999999999999999 Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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13-01-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 03:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t agree with you on this. I can do away every god ever dreamt up by mankind and still leave an infitesimal window open for the possibility that a creator being of undetermined qualities exists.

OK, after I read that I’m now a 6.999999999999999 Drinking Beverage
You could go with being an ignostic athest.
Meaning that there isn't a clear and usable definition of what a god is.
Until the definition can be sorted out, it is impossible to assess whether a god does or does not exist.
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13-01-2015, 03:52 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Our bullcrap detection senses are working correctly and have been since birth - that is why.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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13-01-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 03:33 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 02:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's not just about the Christian god - it's any gods at all.

Yeah, that's my point. If we, as atheists, are going to say we are "agnostic" atheists, then we must also say we are agnostic about Zeus, Thor, Venus, etc.

No, we don't. We could disprove the existence of every god so far described but that does not logically rule out any possible god.

Quote:That is simply unreasonable to me.

It is the epitome of reason.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 04:26 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 02:24 PM)Free Wrote:  If that's the case, then anything anybody could possibly think of actually exists, all because you "don't know."

Right?

I don't get all the high octane responsive 1's so I'll respond simply to this last part...

No it doesn't mean everything ACTUALLY exists. It's the position Everything COULD exist. I wouldn't absolutely rule out the flying teapot between Earth and Mars revolving the sun.

To the absolute sense we don't know anything for certain. I would grant we know tautologies and that lot of type of things for certain.. like our names. But beyond that I don't accept we can definitely for sure claim for sure knowledge about anything.

And I became and atheist, to answer the op, by this type of skeptical reasoning. I had always been a skeptical child of Christianity and never really believed it. Then went through a not uncommon eastern/pagan interested view during early years of college but through skeptical thought and reading, realized they were just as meritless than any other religious position.. because I came to see that any definitive position on certainty of knowledge is a position of logical holes.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-01-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 03:41 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 03:33 PM)Free Wrote:  Yeah, that's my point. If we, as atheists, are going to say we are "agnostic" atheists, then we must also say we are agnostic about Zeus, Thor, Venus, etc.

That is simply unreasonable to me.

I don’t agree with you on this. I can do away every god ever dreamt up by mankind and still leave an infitesimal window open for the possibility that a creator being of undetermined qualities exists.

OK, after I read that I’m now a 6.999999999999999 Drinking Beverage

Is there any evidence to support this creator being? Is there any more evidence to support any of the other hundreds of creator beings that have come and gone throughout history?

Also, what I am speaking about in regards to gods is directly related to all the gods that have been known to us throughout history.

Here's a tricky statement:

Just because we think that some creator God is possible does not mean it is actually possible.

Let me explain ...

Is it possible that 1,592,457,905,610 Billion masturbating french fried potatoes are - right at this minute - walking down Wall Street in New York with their dicks in their hands?

Big Grin

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13-01-2015, 04:44 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 04:26 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  No it doesn't mean everything ACTUALLY exists. It's the position Everything COULD exist.
Well, actually, you haven't even come to the conclusion on whether it could exist.
It's a position that you have no knowledge of its existence or non existence.
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