Why do atheists become atheists?
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24-01-2015, 04:59 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 04:44 PM)Free Wrote:  [quote='WitchSabrina' pid='725967' dateline='1422137796']

Fortunately on this forum most of the members do employ excellent reasoning skills. Many seem to be more proficient with it then I am, which is good because they can teach me things I am unaware of.

I'll forever be grateful to those who helped me along so many years ago.

In the name of the noodle, the water, and the holy seasoning packet...RAMEN

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24-01-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(17-01-2015 12:19 PM)Free Wrote:  
(17-01-2015 11:28 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Well actually, you do have a god belief. You have a belief that god doesn't exist.

No, YOU have a belief that God does not exist.

I state as absolute fact, "God does not exist."

If you are not 7.0, you are harboring the belief that it is possible that god exists. If you had no doubts whatsoever that God did not exist, you would be 7.0

Tongue

My god (!) what a discussion! By and by I have evidence to believe that my mind turns back to support deism, the Christian version. This Christian god if existing must be a daemon, and I hear this daemon laughing loud about having created those arguing devils - and this laughing is a strong proof for his existence...

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
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24-01-2015, 05:09 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 02:16 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Stevil, no. This has been explained to you oh so many, many times on this forum.

damn!

Nope. Stevil is correct. The one who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Period.

False logic.

Philosophic burden of proof

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.

An argument from ignorance occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.

This has the effect of shifting the burden of proof to the person criticizing the assertion, but is not valid reasoning
."

In relation to his concepts/scenarios, Stevil said:

"If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims."

Hence, the burden of proof most certainly falls to Stevil.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 05:11 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 05:09 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nope. Stevil is correct. The one who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Period.

False logic.

Philosophic burden of proof

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.

An argument from ignorance occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.

This has the effect of shifting the burden of proof to the person criticizing the assertion, but is not valid reasoning
."

In relation to his concepts/scenarios, Stevil said:

"If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims."

Hence, the burden of proof most certainly falls to Stevil.

I commented on the quote. Don't add shit to it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 05:09 PM)Free Wrote:  False logic.

Philosophic burden of proof

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.

An argument from ignorance occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.

This has the effect of shifting the burden of proof to the person criticizing the assertion, but is not valid reasoning
."

In relation to his concepts/scenarios, Stevil said:

"If you cannot prove these scenarios to be false then you cannot say that you have proved god's existence to be impossible. You can however state that you disbelieve my and anyone else's unsupported claims."

Hence, the burden of proof most certainly falls to Stevil.

I commented on the quote. Don't add shit to it.

But the quote INCLUDED that shit.

Tongue

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 05:12 PM)Free Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 05:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  I commented on the quote. Don't add shit to it.

But the quote INCLUDED that shit.

Tongue

Nope, didn't.
Witch quotes Stevil Wrote:If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

But I'm not getting into it with you again. You make a claim, you support it. Simple.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 05:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 05:12 PM)Free Wrote:  But the quote INCLUDED that shit.

Tongue

Nope, didn't.
Witch quotes Stevil Wrote:If you make a claim that god does not exist, you have a burden of proof on you.
If you want to avoid burdon of proof then just claim disbelief.

But I'm not getting into it with you again. You make a claim, you support it. Simple.

You are cutting out most of what that discussion is about. It goes back to THIS post.

And I have supported my claims.

Big Grin

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(24-01-2015 04:59 PM)The Drake Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 04:44 PM)Free Wrote:  [quote='WitchSabrina' pid='725967' dateline='1422137796']

Fortunately on this forum most of the members do employ excellent reasoning skills. Many seem to be more proficient with it then I am, which is good because they can teach me things I am unaware of.

I'll forever be grateful to those who helped me along so many years ago.

In the name of the noodle, the water, and the holy seasoning packet...RAMEN

HalyNoodleYa!

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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24-01-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 05:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No one "becomes" an atheist. Sooner or later, one has to face realty.
Rejecting delusion isn't really optional for sane people.
It's all that remains, when the field is cleared.

Bucky always has the short answer. The truth comes in many forms. The short one is usually the right one.Big Grin

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24-01-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
I'm an RCC raised Christian since birth. So for me, the default is the assumption that Christianity is correct. It's what I was raised with, it's what most of the people I ever knew are - even the people I know today. But I will say when I first started feeling doubts about whether Christianity is real, it's very scary. You do all of this searching trying to find logical arguments (which are actually apologetics pieces) for why Christianity (for me RCC specifically) is the one true faith and the preferred religion for salvation. Everything that you learn and are taught is referred to as the truth. Even in the gospels, Jesus is quoted to say "I am the way, the truth and the life" and "I am the alpha and the omega".

But you know what's ironic? Well maybe not for the majority here, but for those of us new to all of this it's the notion that the deeper you dig, the more knowledge you seek and simply the more you learn the less tenable religion becomes. One of the areas that was critical to shaking my faith is the old testament writings, and how contradictory they are to the new testament. I can see how gnosticism developed in the 2nd century about 2 separate Gods, where the OT God is evil while the NT God (Jesus) is good. And yes, it does read like we're reading about two different Gods. When you read that the fall of Jericho written in the bible did not happen based on the archaeological record, the Israelites were most likely never enslaved as a nation within Egypt and to me most especially that the Israelites where NOT a distinct nation who was promised the land occupied by Canaanites but where in fact Canaanites themselves...it really makes you take pause. Then you read the NT and see Jesus referencing things that happened in the OT that we now know as false, i.e. Moses wrote the pentatuch, that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt and that they were a group of outsiders who were supposed to take Canaan, then you wonder WHY would the Son of God talk to the people about things that were false - since it was written that God will never deceive nor be deceived. How does that square?

Then you think more about morality and wonder how can God be the sole source of morality? There were plenty of nations prior to Israel who have had written laws that were very much similar to the laws revealed to the Israelites on Mt Sinai - with the Code of Hamurabi (sp?) being front and center. Then the Chinese had the Golden Rule before the birth of Christ. So if all of these laws were not known to man before God revealed it - and that's the position we have to take, right? God was unknown to all other nations prior to revealing himself to Abraham, so why is it logical to explain this away by saying that God wrote these laws on our hearts from the dawn of time? Then why would he have to reveal anything then aside from his existence to all of us? How does that square? Because what seems more reasonable to me about morality is that it was a necessary development that was needed in order for civilization to be possible and progress. And morality is really quite simple, isn't it? Do things to maximize the benefits to all, and to avoid doing things that cause direct harm to others. Isn't that really what morality is all about?
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