Why do atheists become atheists?
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29-01-2015, 08:12 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(29-01-2015 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-01-2015 07:56 PM)Free Wrote:  Point is, "citation please."

I provided mine, and he calls it some kind of "unfounded" opinion, while he himself provided nothing.

This guy is not an anthropologist, but he's very well respected. I'll get some more.
(I happen to be reading this).
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?i...0674061439

Looks like an interesting read from a sociologists perspective. He's probably using a good mix of historians and anthropologists.

I have always known about dancing, as "rejoice" literally means that; leap for joy. I might check that out myself. With 784 pages, I will have to speed read it though.

Thanks for the link.

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29-01-2015, 08:26 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of...ennium_BCE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionar..._behaviour

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-01-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(29-01-2015 08:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of...ennium_BCE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionar..._behaviour

First link shows that the best and most likely evidence for religious rituals was about 10,000 years ago. That works with history.

2nd link, the jury is still out because of animal rituals, or what seem to be rituals.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120919...t-the-dead

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29-01-2015, 09:02 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2015 10:19 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(29-01-2015 06:12 PM)bencandide Wrote:  You mingle historic facts and your opinion and the result is again an opinion, quite diffuse, backed by nothing.
For example, the very early humans could have been a bunch of superstitious tribes, thinking everything which they could not understand to be demonic (and maybe some of their leaders took advantage of this belief in demons). Next ´higher´ stage could have been the definition of gods as more powerful demons.
Anyway, some of the Greek philosophers became atheists in a religious environment. They risked punishment because atheism was forbidden in most Greek cities. In these Greece cities religion and politics was not separated - and so it was in most ancient societies.

Pro-tip: When you argue at the big boys table you need to be able to back it up, especially when you make unsupported accusations, otherwise STFU.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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30-01-2015, 07:07 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Big boys? Yes, could be, looking at the preference of fecal argumentations.
I dared to question the position ´we are borne atheists´, and the answer was a little personal shit storm.
I made some remarks concerning the ´historical excursion´ of Free, because his excursion gave no proof for that opinion (how could somebody prove that a Greek philosopher was a born atheists - unless he has a gene probe and knows the structure of the atheist gene :rolleyesSmile
The ´borne atheist´-statement is as true as the born theist statement. It is obvious, that first comes education and indoctrination (nearly the same), so an atheist society produces atheists and theist society produces theist.
That's trivial.
Much more interesting is the basic question of this thread, and by and by some more participants try to answer this question.
This kind of thread needs a moderator - just look at the whole picture: estimated 95% of the discussion has nothing to do with the original topic.









Not only the early Greek societies where religious societies, and it is difficult to find an ancient or society which is not-religious or atheistic.
Early societies in most cases where 100% religious societies, so education was a religious education, and only a very small percentage questioned this education and became atheistic.
If you need prove, just Google a little bit.
So for me the most probable way is, that you are borne into a religious environment, than you are indoctrinated (learning is indoctrination), and now comes the interesting point - you leave this religious cradle. Why?
And that's the topic of this threads. ´I am borne atheist´ is not a very helpful position in this discussion.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
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30-01-2015, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2015 08:57 PM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(30-01-2015 07:07 PM)bencandide Wrote:  Big boys? Yes, could be, looking at the preference of fecal argumentations.

This from someone who fails to provide any citations for his wholly unsupported opinions?

Quote:I dared to question the position ´we are borne atheists´, and the answer was a little personal shit storm.

How can a history lesson be a shit storm? You make this shit up just to be dramatic, or what? Don't expect an Academy Award any time soon.

Quote:I made some remarks concerning the ´historical excursion´ of Free, because his excursion gave no proof for that opinion (how could somebody prove that a Greek philosopher was a born atheists - unless he has a gene probe and knows the structure of the atheist gene :rolleyesSmile

Obviously you failed to read the post, as there were various links throughout it pointing to the history of atheism. And even if you did read it, you so miserably failed to understand it that we stand in astonishment at your obvious lack of intellectual acuity.

Quote:The ´borne atheist´-statement is as true as the born theist statement.

Since you did not comprehend the history, it is no great mystery why your comparison above fails. For the history of atheism demonstrates that atheism was applied to those who were "godless," even if they believed in other gods. Various religions would view members of other religions as atheists because they viewed the gods of other religions as being false gods. So naturally, since the gods were false, they were godless and therefore atheists.

Anyone who did not believe in the same god of any particular religion, or anyone who did not believe in any god at all, were all considered atheists.

Hence, they were born that way.

But no one is born a theist.

Quote: It is obvious, that first comes education and indoctrination (nearly the same), so an atheist society produces atheists and theist society produces theist.

Yeah okay. Tell that to 75% of the members here who were educated and indoctrinated by theists, but THEN reverted to atheism.

Most atheists here are atheists because of their theistic teachings, idiot. All they had to do was read the fucking bible.

Quote:And that's the topic of this threads. ´I am borne atheist´ is not a very helpful position in this discussion.

It is when it's the truth, which you so obviously failed to understand.

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30-01-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(30-01-2015 07:51 PM)Free Wrote:  
(30-01-2015 07:07 PM)bencandide Wrote:  Big boys? Yes, could be, looking at the preference of fecal argumentations.

This from someone who fails to provide any citations for his wholly unsupported opinions?

You should be a little bit more careful with your answers. Obviously you did not understand what I wrote.
If you need citations - just Google, I don't want to give anyone lessons in Greek history. You can do that much better.

Quote:I dared to question the position ´we are borne atheists´, and the answer was a little personal shit storm.


How can a history lesson be a shit storm? You make this shit up just to be dramatic, or what? Don't expect an Academy Award any time soon.

Shit storm does mean the kind of language you are using.

Quote:I made some remarks concerning the ´historical excursion´ of Free, because his excursion gave no proof for that opinion (how could somebody prove that a Greek philosopher was a born atheists - unless he has a gene probe and knows the structure of the atheist gene :rolleyesSmile

Obviously you failed to read the post, as there were various links throughout it pointing to the history of atheism. And even if you did read it, you so miserably failed to understand it that we stand in astonishment at your obvious lack of intellectual acuity.

Again its boring to argue with somebody who is not able to understand, what he writes. And who his ´we´? Do you speak of yourself in the third person?

Quote:The ´borne atheist´-statement is as true as the born theist statement.

Since you failed to understand the history, it is no great mystery why your comparison above fails. For the history of atheism demonstrates that atheism was applied to those who were "godless," even if they believed in other gods. Various religions would view members of other religions as atheists because they viewed the gods of other religions as being false gods. So naturally, since the gods were false, they were godless and therefore atheists.

What in heaven does this prove concerning to be a born atheist?
To be godless because following a false god is a religious position, not a position of a ´modern´ atheist.

Anyone who did not believe in the same god of any particular religion, or anyone who did not believe in any god at all, were all considered atheists.

Hence, they were born that way.

???? That's what I mean: you don't know what you are writing.

But no one is born a theist.

Quote: It is obvious, that first comes education and indoctrination (nearly the same), so an atheist society produces atheists and theist society produces theist.

Yeah okay. Tell that to 75% of the members here who were educated and indoctrinated by theists, but THEN reverted to atheism.

I will not tell them anything, I just like to know, why they reverted. and that's the topic of this thread.

Most atheists here are atheists because of their theistic teachings, idiot. All they had to do was read the fucking bible.

I like your nice and lofty language. And it is true, you have all the answers.

Quote:And that's the topic of this threads. ´I am borne atheist´ is not a very helpful position in this discussion.

It is when it's the truth, which you so miserably failed to understand.

Oh poor me, I cant wait to read more about you teaching the truth.
Maybe you should open a new Sunday school?

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Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
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30-01-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
bencandide Wrote:
Free Wrote:This from someone who fails to provide any citations for his wholly unsupported opinions?

You should be a little bit more careful with your answers. Obviously you did not understand what I wrote. If you need citations - just Google, I don't want to give anyone lessons in Greek history. You can do that much better.

Well, you got one thing correct; you don't want to give anyone lessons in Greek history, especially to someone like me who specializes in it.

And I don't need Google. I use it only because people who are like you don't know anything but.

Quote:
Quote:How can a history lesson be a shit storm? You make this shit up just to be dramatic, or what? Don't expect an Academy Award any time soon.

Shit storm does mean the kind of language you are using.

So you've got some secret definition for it?

Quote:
Quote:Obviously you failed to read the post, as there were various links throughout it pointing to the history of atheism. And even if you did read it, you so miserably failed to understand it that we stand in astonishment at your obvious lack of intellectual acuity.


Again its boring to argue with somebody who is not able to understand, what he writes. And who his ´we´? Do you speak of yourself in the third person?

Boring to argue with historians, is it? Other than you obviously not having a clue about historical fact, you cannot even muster up any reasoning as to why you could ever conclude that I somehow do not understand what I am writing.

You are an idiot doing a masterful job masquerading as a retard.

Quote:
Quote:Since you failed to understand the history, it is no great mystery why your comparison above fails. For the history of atheism demonstrates that atheism was applied to those who were "godless," even if they believed in other gods. Various religions would view members of other religions as atheists because they viewed the gods of other religions as being false gods. So naturally, since the gods were false, they were godless and therefore atheists.

What in heaven does this prove concerning to be a born atheist?

See below:

Quote:
Quote:Anyone who did not believe in the same god of any particular religion, or anyone who did not believe in any god at all, were all considered atheists.

Hence, they were born that way.

???? That's what I mean: you don't know what you are writing.

No, that's what I mean. YOU don't understand what I'm writing. Therefore, as others have already told you, STFU.

Quote:But no one is born a theist.


Yeah okay. Tell that to 75% of the members here who were educated and indoctrinated by theists, but THEN reverted to atheism.

I will not tell them anything, I just like to know, why they reverted. and that's the topic of this thread.

The topic is why atheists become atheists, and various different points of view are expressed. My view is historical, others are modern, but all views can be distinct and can be justified.

You act as if your point of view somehow merits more credulity than others. It does not. In fact, it's insignificant.

Quote:
Quote:Most atheists here are atheists because of their theistic teachings, idiot. All they had to do was read the fucking bible.

I like your nice and lofty language. And it is true, you have all the answers.

You seem put off by the intelligence and education many of us here actually have. Did you think you would come to this forum and find it riddled with idiots? We have some of the most highly educated people online on this very forum for the simple reason that intellectuals enjoy this atmosphere.

So don't even try coming in here with all your pretense, because we see it daily and from dozens of pretentious people who clearly demonstrate far greater intellectual capacity then you are capable of.

Now go sit your ass in a corner somewhere, zip your lip for 5 minutes, and maybe we'll toss you a bone from time to time.

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31-01-2015, 04:25 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(30-01-2015 10:46 PM)Free Wrote:  
bencandide Wrote:You should be a little bit more careful with your answers. Obviously you did not understand what I wrote. If you need citations - just Google, I don't want to give anyone lessons in Greek history. You can do that much better.

Well, you got one thing correct; you don't want to give anyone lessons in Greek history, especially to someone like me who specializes in it.

And I don't need Google. I use it only because people who are like you don't know anything but.

Quote:Shit storm does mean the kind of language you are using.

So you've got some secret definition for it?

Quote:

Again its boring to argue with somebody who is not able to understand, what he writes. And who his ´we´? Do you speak of yourself in the third person?

Boring to argue with historians, is it? Other than you obviously not having a clue about historical fact, you cannot even muster up any reasoning as to why you could ever conclude that I somehow do not understand what I am writing.

You are an idiot doing a masterful job masquerading as a retard.

Quote:What in heaven does this prove concerning to be a born atheist?

See below:

Quote:???? That's what I mean: you don't know what you are writing.

No, that's what I mean. YOU don't understand what I'm writing. Therefore, as others have already told you, STFU.

Quote:But no one is born a theist.


Yeah okay. Tell that to 75% of the members here who were educated and indoctrinated by theists, but THEN reverted to atheism.

I will not tell them anything, I just like to know, why they reverted. and that's the topic of this thread.

The topic is why atheists become atheists, and various different points of view are expressed. My view is historical, others are modern, but all views can be distinct and can be justified.

You act as if your point of view somehow merits more credulity than others. It does not. In fact, it's insignificant.

Quote:I like your nice and lofty language. And it is true, you have all the answers.

You seem put off by the intelligence and education many of us here actually have. Did you think you would come to this forum and find it riddled with idiots? We have some of the most highly educated people online on this very forum for the simple reason that intellectuals enjoy this atmosphere.

So don't even try coming in here with all your pretense, because we see it daily and from dozens of pretentious people who clearly demonstrate far greater intellectual capacity then you are capable of.

Now go sit your ass in a corner somewhere, zip your lip for 5 minutes, and maybe we'll toss you a bone from time to time.

Drinking Beverage

You are a historian? Well, well, interesting. Do you think, that makes your argumentation better?
I am overwhelmed by your intellectual capacity. I am sure you were born that
way, a highly educated atheistic baby-historian with true love to logic and four-letter words.
Sorry, if you cant see, that the historic argumentation you started gives no prove at all for your ´borne atheist` statement, it makes no sense to prolong this kind of exchange of ´arguments!.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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31-01-2015, 05:06 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Whatever happened to plain common sense?

When you are born you don't know shit from shinola. You are not theist because nobody has been feeding you that crap as yet. You are not atheist because there is no theism as yet. If there is no theism, there is no atheism.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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