Why do atheists become atheists?
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13-01-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 08:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 08:21 PM)Free Wrote:  This is just semantics, because if it doesn't rule out the possibility, then obviously the possibility exists.

So hence, point blank:

Is it possible that God exists?

Which God? Are you asking about some particular God? Because I'm not.

Any god that fits the description of being supernatural.

I'm not trying to corner you, Chas. Just trying to help you understand why I am 7.0 while you are likely 6.9999999999

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13-01-2015, 09:04 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 08:55 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 08:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  Which God? Are you asking about some particular God? Because I'm not.

Any god that fits the description of being supernatural.

I'm not trying to corner you, Chas. Just trying to help you understand why I am 7.0 while you are likely 6.9999999999

You can only honestly be 7.0 if you can prove there are no gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 08:55 PM)Free Wrote:  Any god that fits the description of being supernatural.

I'm not trying to corner you, Chas. Just trying to help you understand why I am 7.0 while you are likely 6.9999999999

You can only honestly be 7.0 if you can prove there are no gods.

"should" not "can". (??)
I'm 7.0 there are no sparkly pink unicorns.
"Same diff" Tongue

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13-01-2015, 09:14 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 08:55 PM)Free Wrote:  Any god that fits the description of being supernatural.

I'm not trying to corner you, Chas. Just trying to help you understand why I am 7.0 while you are likely 6.9999999999

You can only honestly be 7.0 if you can prove there are no gods.

Prove a negative? Seriously?

Theist or Polytheist: "Prove god(s) does not exist!"

That's what you are asking me to do, Chas.

The burden of proof is upon the positive claimant. I do not have to prove anything.

And that is honesty.

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13-01-2015, 09:23 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:14 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 09:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can only honestly be 7.0 if you can prove there are no gods.

Prove a negative? Seriously?

Theist or Polytheist: "Prove god(s) does not exist!"

That's what you are asking me to do, Chas.

The burden of proof is upon the positive claimant. I do not have to prove anything.

And that is honesty.

And that is the point. You cannot make the claim that no gods exist with certainty since it cannot be proved. To claim to be 7.0 is a faith claim.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 09:30 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 09:14 PM)Free Wrote:  Prove a negative? Seriously?

Theist or Polytheist: "Prove god(s) does not exist!"

That's what you are asking me to do, Chas.

The burden of proof is upon the positive claimant. I do not have to prove anything.

And that is honesty.

And that is the point. You cannot make the claim that no gods exist with certainty since it cannot be proved. To claim to be 7.0 is a faith claim.

If I were to say that 146 Billion Pink Unicorns (thanks Bucky) are masturbating in your bathroom right now, do you think you are somehow obligated to prove they are not there?

Who has the burden of proof?

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13-01-2015, 09:31 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
I think I (as in *me*) can claim I am 7.0 certain. I can report what I think is my certainty level.
It's not a statement about anything else.

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13-01-2015, 10:30 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:30 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 09:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  And that is the point. You cannot make the claim that no gods exist with certainty since it cannot be proved. To claim to be 7.0 is a faith claim.

If I were to say that 146 Billion Pink Unicorns (thanks Bucky) are masturbating in your bathroom right now, do you think you are somehow obligated to prove they are not there?

Who has the burden of proof?

That is a falsifiable claim - not the same thing at all.

The strongest valid statement we can make is that there is no evidence of any gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 10:33 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2015 10:36 PM by Chas.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 09:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think I (as in *me*) can claim I am 7.0 certain. I can report what I think is my certainty level.
It's not a statement about anything else.

You can say that, but by doing so you are claiming knowledge that you don't have.

Dawkins defined the scale such that 1.0 and 7.0 are knowledge claims.

I am also quite certain there are no gods, but I don't claim knowledge of that. My certainty comes from the utter lack of objective evidence that any supernatural anything exists and the strength of the evidence of the natural world.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 11:08 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(13-01-2015 10:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 09:30 PM)Free Wrote:  If I were to say that 146 Billion Pink Unicorns (thanks Bucky) are masturbating in your bathroom right now, do you think you are somehow obligated to prove they are not there?

Who has the burden of proof?

That is a falsifiable claim - not the same thing at all.

How is it any more falsifiable than saying the following:

There is one God.

???

Quote:The strongest valid statement we can make is that there is no evidence of any gods.

When there is no evidence, it does not exist. Existence always has evidence.

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