Why do atheists become atheists?
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02-02-2015, 06:22 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(01-02-2015 10:03 PM)Hugh Janus Wrote:  Of course everyone is born pure and free from the pollution of religious belief, and would remain so if not for the influence of those around the child who heap upon her the old superstitions passed down from their own ancestors. One hopes that as they mature and think rationally upon the question of gods, those who were induced to believe in the gods thought their way clear to a position of atheism.

There are others, who get angry with the god they believe in for some perceived slight and out of anger or disappointment with that god, they start calling themselves atheist, but I'm not entirely sure if they are actually atheist as they seem apparently angry at a god. It is difficult to be angry with an entity which one does not believe actually exists, so THOSE atheists are probably just angry theists who are pissed off with the god they believe in, and these supposed atheists continually rant about how evil and nasty god (who they don't think is real) really is. Perhaps that anger is a stepping stone towards reading, and thinking and realizing that there are no gods to be angry with and they eventually emerge to a position of atheism.

God has done nothing shitty to anyone, nor has he helped some and forsaken others because gods do not exist. All that creating, and smiting and flooding the world stuff is just fictitious so there is nothing to be angry at.

If the position ´everyone is borne free from pollution (nice word)´ is correct and has been correct from the beginning for ´homo sapiens`, than there is one thing which could or should puzzle you, if you think consequently.
How did it come that the earliest groups of man and women (all not influenced by religious pollution, brave free and hopefully clear thinking individuals) have been polluted? Did they meet some girls from Venus, convincing them that Aphrodite is much more charming than having no gods at all?

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
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02-02-2015, 06:51 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Ben, it puzzles me that it puzzles you that the act of a child growing up around other adults wouldn't be influenced by them.

As a child, most everything we learn comes from the people around us. We have our own thoughts too, but our experiences day in and day out with other people will shape our beliefs.

This is why there are tens of thousands denominations and a thousand more different religions. The pollution spreads and changes over time, becoming regional.

Instead of the word pollution, you could use the word viral. Religion does spread similar to a virus, infecting those near by.

Logic and a rational mind help immunize us against the bullshit slung by others.

If the act of sexual reproduction puzzles you too, please go talk to your parents.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-02-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 06:51 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Ben, it puzzles me that it puzzles you that the act of a child growing up around other adults wouldn't be influenced by them.

As a child, most everything we learn comes from the people around us. We have our own thoughts too, but our experiences day in and day out with other people will shape our beliefs.

This is why there are tens of thousands denominations and a thousand more different religions. The pollution spreads and changes over time, becoming regional.

Instead of the word pollution, you could use the word viral. Religion does spread similar to a virus, infecting those near by.

Logic and a rational mind help immunize us against the bullshit slung by others.

If the act of sexual reproduction puzzles you too, please go talk to your parents.

Dear, I would like to talk to my parents, but as they are dead, that's a little problem.
I see it is a kind of an hen and egg-problem. If all the hens (and cocks) had been atheists in the very beginning, they would produce white eggs an nurture atheistic children like them in huge quantities. But we had and we have much more of those black eggs, and only recently (during the last 200 years) the number is decreasing slowly.
In other words: the viral infection, how did it start?
I think, we have the religious virus in us from the beginning, and intellect helps to fight this virus, yes, or to makes it worse.
The inventors of the monotheistic religions must have been clever bastards: they knew, how to exploit this religious virus, and there business model worked perfectly for more than 2000 years.
And religious belief is not only for the dumb and badly indoctrinated.
I know very intelligent people deeply believing. You (and I) cant argue with them on that ´bullshit-level`. Even some of the founding fathers where quite religious.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
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02-02-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 06:22 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(01-02-2015 10:03 PM)Hugh Janus Wrote:  Of course everyone is born pure and free from the pollution of religious belief, and would remain so if not for the influence of those around the child who heap upon her the old superstitions passed down from their own ancestors. One hopes that as they mature and think rationally upon the question of gods, those who were induced to believe in the gods thought their way clear to a position of atheism.

There are others, who get angry with the god they believe in for some perceived slight and out of anger or disappointment with that god, they start calling themselves atheist, but I'm not entirely sure if they are actually atheist as they seem apparently angry at a god. It is difficult to be angry with an entity which one does not believe actually exists, so THOSE atheists are probably just angry theists who are pissed off with the god they believe in, and these supposed atheists continually rant about how evil and nasty god (who they don't think is real) really is. Perhaps that anger is a stepping stone towards reading, and thinking and realizing that there are no gods to be angry with and they eventually emerge to a position of atheism.

God has done nothing shitty to anyone, nor has he helped some and forsaken others because gods do not exist. All that creating, and smiting and flooding the world stuff is just fictitious so there is nothing to be angry at.

If the position ´everyone is borne free from pollution (nice word)´ is correct and has been correct from the beginning for ´homo sapiens`, than there is one thing which could or should puzzle you, if you think consequently.
How did it come that the earliest groups of man and women (all not influenced by religious pollution, brave free and hopefully clear thinking individuals) have been polluted? Did they meet some girls from Venus, convincing them that Aphrodite is much more charming than having no gods at all?

I suggest you look into evolution, particularly evolutionary psychology.

Our minds evolved a bunch of survival gadgets like pattern recognition, pattern seeking, and ascribing intent to others. It is straightforward to see that ascribing intent, therefore mind, to storms, comets, etc. leads to the concept of gods.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 08:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 06:22 AM)bencandide Wrote:  If the position ´everyone is borne free from pollution (nice word)´ is correct and has been correct from the beginning for ´homo sapiens`, than there is one thing which could or should puzzle you, if you think consequently.
How did it come that the earliest groups of man and women (all not influenced by religious pollution, brave free and hopefully clear thinking individuals) have been polluted? Did they meet some girls from Venus, convincing them that Aphrodite is much more charming than having no gods at all?

I suggest you look into evolution, particularly evolutionary psychology.

Our minds evolved a bunch of survival gadgets like pattern recognition, pattern seeking, and ascribing intent to others. It is straightforward to see that ascribing intent, therefore mind, to storms, comets, etc. leads to the concept of gods.

Yes, that's exactly what I am looking into. And the step from animism to the ´creation` of gods (so I am a kind of creationist) is actually the most interesting for me.
Maybe you have a hint, who offers a readable recent publication in the field of evolutionary psychology?

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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02-02-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 08:33 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 08:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  I suggest you look into evolution, particularly evolutionary psychology.

Our minds evolved a bunch of survival gadgets like pattern recognition, pattern seeking, and ascribing intent to others. It is straightforward to see that ascribing intent, therefore mind, to storms, comets, etc. leads to the concept of gods.

Yes, that's exactly what I am looking into. And the step from animism to the ´creation` of gods (so I am a kind of creationist) is actually the most interesting for me.
Maybe you have a hint, who offers a readable recent publication in the field of evolutionary psychology?

I suggest books by Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett as the starting point.

To understand brain/mind evolution, one must be well-grounded in how evolution works - a mindless, unplanned, undirected algorithm.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 08:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 08:33 AM)bencandide Wrote:  Yes, that's exactly what I am looking into. And the step from animism to the ´creation` of gods (so I am a kind of creationist) is actually the most interesting for me.
Maybe you have a hint, who offers a readable recent publication in the field of evolutionary psychology?

I suggest books by Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett as the starting point.

To understand brain/mind evolution, one must be well-grounded in how evolution works - a mindless, unplanned, undirected algorithm.

Thank you. The ´Dawkins web-site´ guided me to this one (maybe you know it)
Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith (Englisch) Taschenbuch – Juni 2011 von J. Anderson Thomson Jr. (Autor), Clare Aukofer (Autor), Richard Dawkins (Vorwort)

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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02-02-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:25 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 08:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  I suggest books by Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett as the starting point.

To understand brain/mind evolution, one must be well-grounded in how evolution works - a mindless, unplanned, undirected algorithm.

Thank you. The ´Dawkins web-site´ guided me to this one (maybe you know it)
Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith (Englisch) Taschenbuch – Juni 2011 von J. Anderson Thomson Jr. (Autor), Clare Aukofer (Autor), Richard Dawkins (Vorwort)

The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Gene

http://www.amazon.ca/The-God-Gene-Faith-...0385720319

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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02-02-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Growing up in a tribe with a few hundred or even a large family with lots of brothers and sisters, you understand very quickly there is a hierarchy in group dynamics. People who are stronger or hold more authority or more manipulative can get others to do things for them. The rest of us can bargain for goods and services if we can't do it for ourselves.

Wishful thinking results in some of those wishes granted. "I wish it would stop raining" and on one occasion out of 100 it does. This kind of thing would seem miraculous if someone was out in the rain with lots if people around and someone commanded the rain to stop.

Its of course, all coincidental, but early humans wouldn't have realized that.

"Since we can command others, maybe we can command nature too."- That would have been the thought process.

It's all about manipulating the masses.

And let's say you aren't the strongest, but you have friends or family who listen to you. You can use that bond to threaten others. "When I tell my father, the great warrior, what has happened here, he will slaughter this whole village. Now when I come back tomorrow you will have the tribute I have requested."

The origins of religion really aren't that difficult to understand. There is no great mystery here.

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02-02-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:33 AM)Free Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:25 AM)bencandide Wrote:  Thank you. The ´Dawkins web-site´ guided me to this one (maybe you know it)
Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith (Englisch) Taschenbuch – Juni 2011 von J. Anderson Thomson Jr. (Autor), Clare Aukofer (Autor), Richard Dawkins (Vorwort)

The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Gene

http://www.amazon.ca/The-God-Gene-Faith-...0385720319

Thanks, too.
But this one could be tough chewing gum for the ´borne atheist fraction`.
I shall see...

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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