Why do atheists become atheists?
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02-02-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:44 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:33 AM)Free Wrote:  The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Gene

http://www.amazon.ca/The-God-Gene-Faith-...0385720319

Thanks, too.
But this one could be tough chewing gum for the ´borne atheist fraction`.
I shall see...

It is not what you think. Religionists hate this book. It's really all about our inclination to believe as opposed to being skeptical. It does not mean we are "born with faith," but only that we are born with an inclination towards it.

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02-02-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:54 AM)Free Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:44 AM)bencandide Wrote:  Thanks, too.
But this one could be tough chewing gum for the ´borne atheist fraction`.
I shall see...

It is not what you think. Religionists hate this book. It's really all about our inclination to believe as opposed to being skeptical. It does not mean we are "born with faith," but only that we are born with an inclination towards it.

Hey, it is interesting to read from others what they think that I am thinking.
If you think, I am a religionist - I don't know why. Most labels ending -ist would not fit with me.
Inclination to faith comes quite near to what I assume is within our ´nature`, as a counterpart to being skeptical. So, I ordered this book already, and I am sure I will not hate it.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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02-02-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:25 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 08:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  I suggest books by Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett as the starting point.

To understand brain/mind evolution, one must be well-grounded in how evolution works - a mindless, unplanned, undirected algorithm.

Thank you. The ´Dawkins web-site´ guided me to this one (maybe you know it)
Why We Believe in God(s): A Concise Guide to the Science of Faith (Englisch) Taschenbuch – Juni 2011 von J. Anderson Thomson Jr. (Autor), Clare Aukofer (Autor), Richard Dawkins (Vorwort)

I don't know that one - thanks for the reference. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:44 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:33 AM)Free Wrote:  The God Gene: How Faith Is Hardwired into Our Gene

http://www.amazon.ca/The-God-Gene-Faith-...0385720319

Thanks, too.
But this one could be tough chewing gum for the ´borne atheist fraction`.
I shall see...

The author is an actual geneticist, though the book is not his original ideas.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 09:44 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Growing up in a tribe with a few hundred or even a large family with lots of brothers and sisters, you understand very quickly there is a hierarchy in group dynamics. People who are stronger or hold more authority or more manipulative can get others to do things for them. The rest of us can bargain for goods and services if we can't do it for ourselves.

Wishful thinking results in some of those wishes granted. "I wish it would stop raining" and on one occasion out of 100 it does. This kind of thing would seem miraculous if someone was out in the rain with lots if people around and someone commanded the rain to stop.

Its of course, all coincidental, but early humans wouldn't have realized that.

"Since we can command others, maybe we can command nature too."- That would have been the thought process.

It's all about manipulating the masses.

And let's say you aren't the strongest, but you have friends or family who listen to you. You can use that bond to threaten others. "When I tell my father, the great warrior, what has happened here, he will slaughter this whole village. Now when I come back tomorrow you will have the tribute I have requested."

The origins of religion really aren't that difficult to understand. There is no great mystery here.

Yes, no objection.
Your point is clear, only that your examples are nearly all without the religious component - which is used as a kind of amplifier by the brighter guys / leaders.
The starting point of this part of the thread was the `borne atheistic thesis`, and as a very skeptical person I did not believe that and I tried to scratch a little bit deeper.
Many interesting contribution could be read here, and now I will read what science recently found concerning this question.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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02-02-2015, 01:06 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
Well, we are born without knowledge and without beliefs. We have instincts and primal urges that encourage survival and when the time is right procreation.

We are born without a belief in gods, just as we are born without the ability to speak a language. Both are learned from others around us.

There is no one true language, just as there is no one true god.

But, as some would argue, being an atheist can also mean someone who has considered the assertions made by the various religions and haven't been swayed by faith to believe them. Instead requiring actual evidence before accepting the claims.

Since a child can't consider the assertions made by religious people, some would say, children aren't atheists, yet.

I understand each position and I fall in the....
Some of column A some of column B category.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-02-2015, 01:24 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2015 02:37 PM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 10:42 AM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 09:54 AM)Free Wrote:  It is not what you think. Religionists hate this book. It's really all about our inclination to believe as opposed to being skeptical. It does not mean we are "born with faith," but only that we are born with an inclination towards it.
If you think, I am a religionist - I don't know why. Most labels ending -ist would not fit with me.

As mentioned earlier, you have displayed some degree of cognitive dissonance. You mentioned earlier about a vision regrading a "supernatural" dog, and claimed it was a real vision. You've also used the words "I pray," or "Thank god" a couple times. This demonstrates a deep intrusion of your psyche by some previous religious indoctrination that is still influencing you subconsciously.

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02-02-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 01:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 10:42 AM)bencandide Wrote:  If you think, I am a religionist - I don't know why. Most labels ending -ist would not fit with me.

As mentioned earlier, you have displayed some degree of cognitive dissonance. You mentioned earlier about a vision regrading a "supernatural" dog, and claimed it was a real vision. You've also used the words "I pray," or "Thank god" a couple times. This demonstrates a deep intrusion of your psyche by some previous religious indoctrination that is still influencing you subconsciously.

Now you got me. It is true, I secretly believe in dogs. You should know better that dogs can be supernatural, look especially at that dog posted recently from a guy called Free.
And I confess, I used those forbidden words. By Jove, isn't confess a forbidden word, too?
Please take me on your couch for a little Freudian session. Together with your dog.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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02-02-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 04:07 PM)bencandide Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 01:24 PM)Free Wrote:  As mentioned earlier, you have displayed some degree of cognitive dissonance. You mentioned earlier about a vision regrading a "supernatural" dog, and claimed it was a real vision. You've also used the words "I pray," or "Thank god" a couple times. This demonstrates a deep intrusion of your psyche by some previous religious indoctrination that is still influencing you subconsciously.

Now you got me. It is true, I secretly believe in dogs. You should know better that dogs can be supernatural, look especially at that dog posted recently from a guy called Free.
And I confess, I used those forbidden words. By Jove, isn't confess a forbidden word, too?
Please take me on your couch for a little Freudian session. Together with your dog.

Sarcasm noted.

However, was there ever any kind of religious influence in your life?

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02-02-2015, 05:14 PM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(02-02-2015 04:42 PM)Free Wrote:  
(02-02-2015 04:07 PM)bencandide Wrote:  Now you got me. It is true, I secretly believe in dogs. You should know better that dogs can be supernatural, look especially at that dog posted recently from a guy called Free.
And I confess, I used those forbidden words. By Jove, isn't confess a forbidden word, too?
Please take me on your couch for a little Freudian session. Together with your dog.

Sarcasm noted.

However, was there ever any kind of religious influence in your life?

Are you sincere with that question?
If yes, you get a sincere answer: yes, and I mentioned that several times - during childhood and school time. Taking lessons in religion had been obligatory all over my country when I went to school.
If not, I could draw the conclusion that there is a little bit of humor left hidden behind your history books. Because: it is difficult to find somebody (except kids like Kaspar Hauser) who did not get into connection with any kind of religious influenza.

Any system of religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be true.
Thomas Paine
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