Why do atheists become atheists?
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14-01-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 09:17 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  So Free, are you a gnostic atheist? Because that's a problematic position to sustain.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I am 100% atheist. There is no God.

Read This Post.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 09:55 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 09:44 AM)Free Wrote:  Now, in regards to me having the burdern of proof, it is quite simple:

1. There is no evidence that any god exists.

So far there isn't any, true.

(14-01-2015 09:44 AM)Free Wrote:  2. There is no evidence to support any possibility that any god exists.

You have not proven this.

You're claiming that no Gods exist, but you have failed to prove it. And the whole playing with definitions is not going to help you.

If you can say with absolute certainty that there is no God, then you're making a claim, and since you have no evidence to support this, you're making an unsubstantiated claim. As Aron Ra said: if you can't show it, you don't know it.

You're claiming to have knowledge you have not. So let me ask you this and just answer with yes or no: Do you know for certain whether a God exists or not? Any God?

I have proven it with evidence.

Read this post.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid720005

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 09:59 AM)Free Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 09:55 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  So far there isn't any, true.


You have not proven this.

You're claiming that no Gods exist, but you have failed to prove it. And the whole playing with definitions is not going to help you.

If you can say with absolute certainty that there is no God, then you're making a claim, and since you have no evidence to support this, you're making an unsubstantiated claim. As Aron Ra said: if you can't show it, you don't know it.

You're claiming to have knowledge you have not. So let me ask you this and just answer with yes or no: Do you know for certain whether a God exists or not? Any God?

I have proven it with evidence.

Read this post.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid720005

That isn't anything remotely consisting of proof. It's a claim that God is weak enough of a claim to make you certain about it. YOU are fine with that position. So be it, fine by you.

Some others including myself with take more of a strictly definitively correct logical state about what we assert as absolutely true.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2015, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2015 10:11 AM by Free.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 10:05 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 09:59 AM)Free Wrote:  I have proven it with evidence.

Read this post.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid720005

That isn't anything remotely consisting of proof. It's a claim that God is weak enough of a claim to make you certain about it. YOU are fine with that position. So be it, fine by you.

Then you do not understand the logic behind it. It demonstrates evidence of non existence.

Quote:Some others including myself with take more of a strictly definitively correct logical state about what we assert as absolutely true.

That logical state you decided to take isn't logical at all. When you claim the possibility of something existing, yet provide no evidence to support such a possibility, how can that be logical?

That is not logic; that is a belief system.

And that is exactly what theists do.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2015 10:17 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 10:08 AM)Free Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 10:05 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That isn't anything remotely consisting of proof. It's a claim that God is weak enough of a claim to make you certain about it. YOU are fine with that position. So be it, fine by you.

Then you do not understand the logic behind it. It demonstrates evidence of non existence.

Quote:Some others including myself with take more of a strictly definitively correct logical state about what we assert as absolutely true.

That logical state you decided to take isn't logical at all. When you claim the possibility of something existing, yet provide no evidence to support such a possibility, how can that be logical?

That is not logic; that is a belief system.

And that is exactly what theists do.

Because the position isn't to have claimed the possibility of something existing... It's not denying the possibility of something existing without solid evidence against it.

And not accepting the absence of evidence as evidence.

Your position is: I AM CERTAIN. My position is: I don't know what it would take to be certain so I will not proclaim to be certain due to the possibility I actually am not certain since I don't have the evidence available to make me certain.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 10:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 10:08 AM)Free Wrote:  Then you do not understand the logic behind it. It demonstrates evidence of non existence.


That logical state you decided to take isn't logical at all. When you claim the possibility of something existing, yet provide no evidence to support such a possibility, how can that be logical?

That is not logic; that is a belief system.

And that is exactly what theists do.

Because I've never claimed the possibility of something existing... I don't deny the possibility of something existing without evidence.

What evidence can you supply to support even the possibility that God exists? You see, such a claim requires evidence, because it is a positive claim.

You see, my point here is really all about atheism verses agnosticism. To me, if you are not 7.0, then you are simply not an atheist. We all know what atheism is, and we all know what agnosticism is.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
I'm not arguing the possibility exists.

I'm not denying it either... get that through your head.

And you just made a No True Scottsman fallacy about one not simply being an atheist then. That's a strong argument right?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 10:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 10:08 AM)Free Wrote:  Then you do not understand the logic behind it. It demonstrates evidence of non existence.


That logical state you decided to take isn't logical at all. When you claim the possibility of something existing, yet provide no evidence to support such a possibility, how can that be logical?

That is not logic; that is a belief system.

And that is exactly what theists do.

Your position is: I AM CERTAIN. My position is: I don't know what it would take to be certain so I will not proclaim to be certain due to the possibility I actually am not certain since I don't have the evidence available to make me certain.

And that's fine. I have no problem with this honesty.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 10:18 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not arguing the possibility exists.

I'm not denying it either... get that through your head.

Yes you ARE arguing it.

That is exactly what this discussion is about. If you take the stance of 6.9, then you are indeed arguing for the possibility that a god exists otherwise you would be 7.0.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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14-01-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Why do atheists become atheists?
(14-01-2015 09:17 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  So Free, are you a gnostic atheist? Because that's a problematic position to sustain.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Not meaning to get into the middle of this but I have to correct you on this PA. Absence of evidence actually CAN be evidence of absence. Even though you can't disprove the whole orbiting teapot analogy at this time, the fact that the teapot has not been seen does in fact support the assertion that there is no teapot. While I agree that you that as long as there are stones left unturned you can't really say that something is absent (or false), as you turn over more stones and there are fewer stones left to hide under, you are in fact using lack of evidence to support the assertion that the subject in question is false. Do you seriously think that you, after looking under 9,999 stones of 10,000, that after you turn over the last one and find nothing are still going to argue that lack of evidence is not evidence of absence? That is not rational, that is theological.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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