Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
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30-12-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
To me the whole God hypothesis isn't so much unlikely as unnecessary. If the universe could have happened by natural processes alone, and without the intercession of a sentient omnipotent being, then why would we assume there was one? And even if we DID assume there was a divine power why would we assume we have any ability to detect it, let alone interpret its will? And even if we DID assume that we could interpret its will, why would we assume that of the THOUSANDS of gods that humans have cooked up, the currently-favored Yahweh of the Judeo-Christian tradition is the true one?

The more you look at religion - and more specifically religions other than the most common tradition in your particular area, the more the patterns of their development seem similar, the more obvious it becomes that they're all a man-made fiction, a tool used by those in power to pacify and control large groups of people and the less convincing deities become as a means to explain the existence of life and the universe.

At least to me.
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30-12-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(30-12-2016 04:37 AM)adey67 Wrote:  So yes there are things in this world that we don't know, and that's the great thing about science, it has no problem with saying "we don't know"

When someone comes along and says an ancient collection of books holds the key to life the universe and everything Science says, ok please show us your theory and the science behind your claim. No science is put forward, they just say you have to believe and have faith.

That is why I trust in science, because it does exactly what it says on the tin.

I appreciate the time you took to write your post, adey67; IMO, you really do a great job of showing how fascinating, interesting, and reliable science is.

About a year ago, I watched a debate between Sean Carroll and William Lane Craig. At some point in the debate, Carroll made a very brief remark about differential equations and how they model the physical situations around us (please forgive me if my recollection is not precise). Thus, I found his remark to be very fascinating, and as a result, I decided to teach myself differential equations (ODE's w/ a brief intro to PDE'S) via Paul's Online Math Notes and a Schaum's outline. I really enjoyed working the application problems: I just thought it was so cool to be able to model and interpret physical situations with actual equations and was even more fascinated with the many complex physical situations that we cannot (as of yet) precisely model with DE's. Hence, my crash course with DE's allowed me to gain a greater appreciation for the curiosity, vigor, and imagination that scientists must possess in order to make new discoveries.

Well, please pardon my tangent, sir. Again, I appreciate the time you took to respond to me. Live long and prosper.

"I'm fearful when I see people substituting fear for reason." Klaatu, from The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951)
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30-12-2016, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2016 03:00 PM by unfogged.)
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(30-12-2016 09:59 AM)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote:  Well, please pardon my tangent, sir.

Anybody with a name like sohcahtoa is pretty [much] expected to go off on a tangent. How long have you been angling to slip that in?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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30-12-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
Double post

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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30-12-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(28-12-2016 04:19 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  The theory of Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life, nor can it explain the existence of life from the first organic cell onward.


Kudos to you for realizing that. We have been saying that for years. All you need to do now is understand it better. BTW, Darwin explained the eye thing 150 years ago.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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30-12-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(30-12-2016 09:59 AM)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 04:37 AM)adey67 Wrote:  So yes there are things in this world that we don't know, and that's the great thing about science, it has no problem with saying "we don't know"

When someone comes along and says an ancient collection of books holds the key to life the universe and everything Science says, ok please show us your theory and the science behind your claim. No science is put forward, they just say you have to believe and have faith.

That is why I trust in science, because it does exactly what it says on the tin.

I appreciate the time you took to write your post, adey67; IMO, you really do a great job of showing how fascinating, interesting, and reliable science is.

About a year ago, I watched a debate between Sean Carroll and William Lane Craig. At some point in the debate, Carroll made a very brief remark about differential equations and how they model the physical situations around us (please forgive me if my recollection is not precise). Thus, I found his remark to be very fascinating, and as a result, I decided to teach myself differential equations (ODE's w/ a brief intro to PDE'S) via Paul's Online Math Notes and a Schaum's outline. I really enjoyed working the application problems: I just thought it was so cool to be able to model and interpret physical situations with actual equations and was even more fascinated with the many complex physical situations that we cannot (as of yet) precisely model with DE's. Hence, my crash course with DE's allowed me to gain a greater appreciation for the curiosity, vigor, and imagination that scientists must possess in order to make new discoveries.

Well, please pardon my tangent, sir. Again, I appreciate the time you took to respond to me. Live long and prosper.
Thank you for your kind words Kernel although I cannot claim sole credit for the post in question. Unfortunately I have dyscalculia I can do basic arithmetic but beyond that math is a mystery and a jumble of numbers and symbols so I'm afraid to say you would probably have more luck conversing with a slug regarding mathematics than me. But I do appreciate your post and as a Brit I love your impeccable manners. I look forward to getting to know you better.
Kind regards Adey
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30-12-2016, 11:45 AM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
Uncaused existence needs no god. All arguments for God sets out to provide some argument for a god's "existence." Existence is presumed. Existence, uncaused, is not in need of a god.
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30-12-2016, 01:07 PM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(30-12-2016 11:34 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Thank you for your kind words Kernel although I cannot claim sole credit for the post in question. Unfortunately I have dyscalculia I can do basic arithmetic but beyond that math is a mystery and a jumble of numbers and symbols so I'm afraid to say you would probably have more luck conversing with a slug regarding mathematics than me. But I do appreciate your post and as a Brit I love your impeccable manners. I look forward to getting to know you better.
Kind regards Adey

Thanks, Adey. When it comes to mathematics, I'm just a person who thinks math is cool/interesting and that is all: there are many ideas, proofs, topics, etc., that are far beyond me. With that said, you are very gentlemanly and kind. Peace and long life, sir.

"I'm fearful when I see people substituting fear for reason." Klaatu, from The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951)
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30-12-2016, 01:16 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2016 01:19 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(30-12-2016 01:07 PM)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 11:34 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Thank you for your kind words Kernel although I cannot claim sole credit for the post in question. Unfortunately I have dyscalculia I can do basic arithmetic but beyond that math is a mystery and a jumble of numbers and symbols so I'm afraid to say you would probably have more luck conversing with a slug regarding mathematics than me. But I do appreciate your post and as a Brit I love your impeccable manners. I look forward to getting to know you better.
Kind regards Adey

Thanks, Adey. When it comes to mathematics, I'm just a person who thinks math is cool/interesting and that is all: there are many ideas, proofs, topics, etc., that are far beyond me. With that said, you are very gentlemanly and kind. Peace and long life, sir.

I'm with you. I made it as far as Partial DiffEq before I was like, "Nope! That's enough Physics for me!" Laugh out load

But the point is that physics, chemistry, and biology courses all have the same approach. They teach you to prove it for yourself. They don't just tell you what's known by other biologists/chemists/physicists; rather, they teach you how those things were learned and they make you work it out for yourself. One of my favorite physics classes was where we learned how to use light to demonstrate what gas was in a vial-- we weren't told what it was, but had to actually do the diffraction manually by shining the light on a wall and measuring the angle the light "bent", and where the interference lines were on the wall. It was beyond fascinating to me. [Edit to Add: Sorry...for those who didn't take physics, this is the basis of a method used to determine what elements/chemicals are found in distant stars and interstellar gas clouds, even though we can't sample them directly.]

Once you know how things are proved, it's no longer necessary to climb to the very top of the proof-ladder to grasp that the Scientific Method works the same way at every level, and that the people doing the top-level proofs use that method.

So when a Liar For Jesus™ comes along and says, "But you don't know _____!", half the time they're talking about things that not only do we actually know, but which the student in STEM fields has been made to work out for themselves. It's insulting and infuriating.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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30-12-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Why do atheists claim that the concept of God is so unlikely
(28-12-2016 04:19 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  The theory of Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life, nor can it explain the existence of life from the first organic cell onward.
The theory of evolution shows that complex organisms evolved over millions of generations over billions of years.
It shows that consciousness and cognition has evolved stepwise and these things did not just pop into existence fully formed.

Physics and biology shows us that everything we know of is made of something, even the code that makes up our bodies instruction set is made up of atoms and protiens.

What is it that the gods are made of? Have they evolved or did they pop into existence? What forces do they use in order to manipulate objects within the universe? How did they come by their consciousness and cognition, how did they come by their knowledge?


(28-12-2016 04:19 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  How does natural selection explain the eye, for example? How can atheists claim that complex organs like the eye could have evolved, when everything we know about the eye says that it is useless unless all the components are in place at the same time.
Not even Michael Behe believes this.

(28-12-2016 04:19 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  It seems that the evidence supports the concept of God, rather than the atheistic claim that "God probably doesn't exist".
What evidence is there for a god?
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