Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
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10-03-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 11:21 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 10:34 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Well if you want me to answer the original post (directly), its because most Christians today aren't savages, yet they still want to be good 'moral' Christians. Happy now? happy for that circle jerk? or was that not the answer you were wanting? Did you want me to say its because they're cherry picking bigots who also commit confirmation bias?

Truly though I had already answered his question, they do so because those 'tidbits' upset them, just like the idea of the big bang being wrong 'upsets' most atheists something fierce.

And I can state with certainty that you have never encountered an atheist who said they would be upset if ANY scientific theory was shown wrong or incomplete.

Then why do they get so upset when the question is brought up? checkmate atheists.

Oh and to answer that question for you its because if it did turn out to be wrong, they'd turn out to be wrong, and then mainstream science would turn out to be wrong giving it a lot less credibility which in turn would make some atheists look like idiots for blindly believing in something without EVER questioning it.
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10-03-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 11:29 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 11:21 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  And I can state with certainty that you have never encountered an atheist who said they would be upset if ANY scientific theory was shown wrong or incomplete.

Then why do they get so upset when the question is brought up? checkmate atheists.

Oh and to answer that question for you its because if it did turn out to be wrong, they'd turn out to be wrong, and then mainstream science would turn out to be wrong giving it a lot less credibility which in turn would make some atheists look like idiots for blindly believing in something without EVER questioning it.

You show your ignorance of science. Along with ignorance in general. To think that, because your emotional security depends on an unwavering belief in something, that everyone else is the same shows just how shallow your thinking (or semblance thereof) is.
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10-03-2017, 12:07 PM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 11:29 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 11:21 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  And I can state with certainty that you have never encountered an atheist who said they would be upset if ANY scientific theory was shown wrong or incomplete.

Then why do they get so upset when the question is brought up? checkmate atheists.

Oh and to answer that question for you its because if it did turn out to be wrong, they'd turn out to be wrong, and then mainstream science would turn out to be wrong giving it a lot less credibility which in turn would make some atheists look like idiots for blindly believing in something without EVER questioning it.

If a particular theory was blown out of the water...........so what? That's science!

I was an undergraduate studying geology many years ago. Plate tectonics swept away the previous thinking about orogenesis.

Science is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe. It is the most reliable method we have to determine what is true. Rational people do not blindly believe in science. They accept that reliability.

Religion cannot provide testable explanations and predictions. It has a poor track record in terms of accuracy. Rational people therefore do not accept its premise or its conclusions.

My original question was one which sought clarification on why xtians persist in making contradictory claims. You seem to have a problem with that.

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10-03-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
SillyDeity Wrote:So can anyone tell me the justification of this view? Where does it say any of this in the NT? And why do they claim this while at the same time cherry picking the OT?
Did Adam follow law of Moses?
Did Abraham follow law of Moses?
Did Isaak?
Did Jacob?

Laws of God are eternal but not the application of those laws.
Justification:
for example, if I belong to house of Israel and live in the USA I can not stone someone to death for adultery. I would go to jail. God doesn't want me to go to jail. Because God also gives a law: "be a law abiding citizen of your country". So, this particular law(stoning to death) can not be applied any more.
So, some laws can not be applied and application of some laws is not necessary any more. For example, animal sacrifice.
Before house of Israel could drink alcohol. It was necessary health wise. Now we can't.
We don't need circumcision any more. Circumcision is sign or mark for those who belong to house of Israel. House of Israel couldn't mix seed of Jacob with Gentiles(unless Gentile becomes a convert). Now children of Jacob are allowed to mix his seed with Gentiles.

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10-03-2017, 07:30 PM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 02:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  
SillyDeity Wrote:So can anyone tell me the justification of this view? Where does it say any of this in the NT? And why do they claim this while at the same time cherry picking the OT?
Did Adam follow law of Moses?
Did Abraham follow law of Moses?
Did Isaak?
Did Jacob?

Laws of God are eternal but not the application of those laws.
Justification:
for example, if I belong to house of Israel and live in the USA I can not stone someone to death for adultery. I would go to jail. God doesn't want me to go to jail. Because God also gives a law: "be a law abiding citizen of your country". So, this particular law(stoning to death) can not be applied any more.
So, some laws can not be applied and application of some laws is not necessary any more. For example, animal sacrifice.
Before house of Israel could drink alcohol. It was necessary health wise. Now we can't.
We don't need circumcision any more. Circumcision is sign or mark for those who belong to house of Israel. House of Israel couldn't mix seed of Jacob with Gentiles(unless Gentile becomes a convert). Now children of Jacob are allowed to mix his seed with Gentiles.
Law of Moses? So it's not the law of God?

I'm not sure what of the rules would of been broken by those figures. I'm sure Jacobs 'multicolor' tunic sounds like it may of been different fabrics mixed together

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11-03-2017, 12:48 AM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 06:49 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Bigger bait? Didn't you respond to it? Admittedly your response wasn't in any intelligible manner, but it still garnered a response from you. So obviously it touched a nerve somewhere.

Posts with actual substance get substantive replies. Vapid ones do not.

Let's not pretend like anything you've posted here has any actual value. Weeping

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11-03-2017, 04:11 AM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
Silly Deity, I will have a go at answering your original post.

I was raised as a "Christian" but stopped going to church at the age of 11 when I discovered Sunday morning radio was more interesting than hearing about a crucifixion.

I also lived in a staunchly fundamentalist community and the former principle of my High School was a bible preacher turned politician who created a religious political party of which he became leader and his nickname was "Bible Bill".

The New Testament is fundamentally different from the Old Testament. It's a story about a man preaching to the masses, in Judea and Syria. He is preaching a Hellenistic moral principle to people of the existing religion. The morality of the New Testament is in the Gospel of Matthew, in which it is said that the principle "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is "the Law and the Prophets". In other words, the New Testament distills a moral principle from the history which is the Old Testament and it is in this sense that it "fulfills" the Old Testament. It doesn't agree with what is awful in the Old Testament. It's trying to advance a moral thread running through it.

You've focused on one word "fulfilling" to suggest that Christianity must accept as "moral" all the wrongdoing in the Old Testament. In my experience of Christianity, the Old Testament was looked upon almost as a "bad" book and it was considered to be the religious text of Judaism. We never read it or had it preached to us as anything which we should look to other than as the "back story" to the New Testament.

Apart from the moral principle, ie., the "Golden Rule", it's all crap, and I don't want to defend Evangelicals and fundamentalists, or anyone who believes in myths and fairy tales. My view is that Christianity is a wholly manufactured, Roman religion which was aimed at the Pagans of the Near East who were descendents of the various civilisations that occupied that region going back to the Sumerians, and that they were largely "amimistic" in their religious beliefs. Christianity was a Romano-Hellenistic attempt to change this religion to one based on a reasoned approach to morality using a political figure of the time whose identity and existence has become very debatable.
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11-03-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 12:07 PM)Silly Deity Wrote:  If a particular theory was blown out of the water...........so what? That's science!
Yeah, and guess what, no scientific theory has EVER been blown out of the water. Hypotheses have been overturned (no surprise there, you'd expect most of them to BE overturned), and theories once established have been extended or refined. But a theory in the scientific sense is a PROVEN explanatory framework that has passed many rigorous tests. Since the establishment of the modern scientific method around the time of Newton no proven theory has ever been disproven. Newtonian physics is still perfectly valid for everyday use, for instance; relativity and quantum theory have simply extended it to the extreme micro and macro scales, essentially correcting rounding errors in edge cases.

We can have confidence that SCIENTIFIC theories are correct, because our computers and networks work, our airplanes fly, our spacecraft continue to return high res images from distant worlds, etc. Because we continue to innovate and invent new technologies (applied science) whereas religious faith has never invented a single thing and has never corrected science.

When theists cite how science has been wrong they usually cite some article of pre-scientific-method faith, not science. Prior to the 1700s we believed a lot of crazy things like bleeding with leeches and a flat earth and that the sun revolved around the earth. But none of that was based on science in any meaningful sense. Indeed, it was actual science that challenged and overturned such folk beliefs.

Sure, science goes back and forth about whether eggs are good for you to eat for example but that is not related to any scientific theory wobbling, those are just arguments about the implications of experiments that show association and not cause, and they are a recognition of uncertainty rather than an assertion of certitude that doesn't actually exist. Sure there have been hoaxes like Piltdown Man but those are long-debunked hoaxes, not scientific theories collapsing -- and they also demonstrate that science self-corrects because guess what, several generations after that hoax we are not attempting to explain why we weren't wrong, we have accepted it and moved on and learned how to prevent it in the future.

Science is the ONLY proven method so far developed to counter the weaknesses of human mentation -- our tendency to all sorts of biases and unjustified inference.

People who make assertions about science being unreliable don't understand the difference between actually established valid science and careless science or pseudo-science or in some cases they misidentify science correcting long-entrenched folk beliefs supportive of religion, with science changing its mind about its own ideas.
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11-03-2017, 07:36 AM (This post was last modified: 11-03-2017 03:16 PM by BackSlider.)
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 10:34 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Well if you want me to answer the original post (directly), its because most Christians today aren't savages, yet they still want to be good 'moral' Christians. Happy now? happy for that circle jerk? or was that not the answer you were wanting? Did you want me to say its because they're cherry picking bigots who also commit confirmation bias?

Jeeesus, finally!

So these "discarded" OT bits, which were ordained from a loving, moral god (God the FATHER by the way) , in essence had his people living as savages by New Testament standards. Dodgy
Okay.
Then god duh FATHER must have got it wrong?
Or has the moral compass shifted, and it took Jesus ( SON of this old god) to release them from the immoral savagery bullchit GTFather ordained?

Ohhhh, THANK-YOU JESUS, I can eat shrimp! Thumbsup

WTF?
No doubt "they" are a pile of cherry picking bigots who also commit confirmation bias; as you suggest they are not.

You have to be odd to be #1.
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11-03-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?
(10-03-2017 07:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Law of Moses? So it's not the law of God?
---

Moses' job was to write down God's laws for the Jewish people. No doubt he had a great distribution contract. Shy

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