Why do christians think bits of the OT don't apply to them?

[Gawdzilla]

LOL, OP, you said "think".

[Norm Deplume]

(10-03-2017 06:46 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  

(10-03-2017 06:17 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  So you're saying the christianity is a conspiracy theory that lots of people have bought into?

Well I wasn't meaning that but... given the definition of conspiracy and the origins of messianic era of judaism... so... yes. Jesus was after all executed for crimes of Sedition.

Seditious conspiracy is a crime that is committed when two or more persons conspire to forcibly: a. destroy or overthrow the U.S. government; b. create obstacles or prevent the execution of U.S. laws; c. oppose the authority of the U.S. government; or d. unlawfully possess or take property that belong to the nation.

A remarkably inaccurate definition for the eighth century AUC. Referring to the U.S. government is just a little anachronistic.

[Heath_Tierney]

Why is anyone paying any attention to C_W? He (or she... don't know, didn't check, don't care) is a conspiracy kook and spewer of lies and non-sequiturs. He/she is entirely irrelevant.

Don't bother responding to me, C_W. I won't read it or reply, as you're not worth my time.

But to the OP's point:

It really depends on the community you're talking with. Some fundamentalists believe that all the old OT laws are still in place (though, oddly, you never see them sacrificing a goat or spreading blood on their doorway), others believe that the human sacrifice of Jesus was enough to make all those old laws unnecessary.

Even xtians can't get their stories straight.

Have you read The Year of Living Biblically? The author, A.J. Jacobs, goes into this in detail. It's worth a read, very humorous and written in a delightfully folksy manner. You can probably whip through it in a few days. Probably available in your local library.

[Silly Deity]

(10-03-2017 08:56 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Why is anyone paying any attention to C_W? He (or she... don't know, didn't check, don't care) is a conspiracy kook and spewer of lies and non-sequiturs. He/she is entirely irrelevant.

Don't bother responding to me, C_W. I won't read it or reply, as you're not worth my time.

But to the OP's point:

It really depends on the community you're talking with. Some fundamentalists believe that all the old OT laws are still in place (though, oddly, you never see them sacrificing a goat or spreading blood on their doorway), others believe that the human sacrifice of Jesus was enough to make all those old laws unnecessary.

Even xtians can't get their stories straight.

Have you read The Year of Living Biblically? The author, A.J. Jacobs, goes into this in detail. It's worth a read, very humorous and written in a delightfully folksy manner. You can probably whip through it in a few days. Probably available in your local library.

Thanks HT. As I pointed out to him earlier C_W's trollism is simply obfuscation.

So if many xtians believe the human sacrifice of Jesus was enough to make all those old laws unnecessary, then why do they insist on the ten commandments as being valid? Why is homosexuality still an abomination? Why is working on a Sunday abhorrent to some?

[Heath_Tierney]

(10-03-2017 09:04 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  So if many xtians believe the human sacrifice of Jesus was enough to make all those old laws unnecessary, then why do they insist on the ten commandments as being valid? Why is homosexuality still an abomination? Why is working on a Sunday abhorrent to some?

Probably because they find it convenient that their God holds, peculiarly, exactly the same political, social and economic views at themselves.

Funny how that happens, eh?

[mordant]

(10-03-2017 03:42 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  "Christ came to fulfill the law, not to extinguish it, but it does have the effect that many ritual practices and practical laws are forgiven Christians.

So can anyone tell me the justification of this view? Where does it say any of this in the NT? And why do they claim this while at the same time cherry picking the OT?

Within the evangelical bubble this is one of those allegedly self-evident, axiomatic truths that you as an unbeliever just don't and can't understand because you don't have their nuanced grasp of theology. In truth all it is, as you suggest, is cherry picking the bits of the OT they like or that happen to coincide with the rules they actually follow.

Questions like this though are easily dismissed as naive and it's not generally effective to go to these places directly. It's better to get them to embrace some OT shibboleths and then urge them to adopt some of the morally repugnant or demanding ones you know they won't accept.

One of the things many of them cherry pick from the OT for example is "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy" ... but not literally of course or they would be shutting down Friday sunset to Saturday sunset rather than Sundays (indeed, the Seventh Day Adventists do just that, and exist largely because they take this literally rather than figuratively). What the NT calls "the Lord's day" and which has come to be Sunday by general practice, is simply the "spiritual heir" to the Sabbath rule, and honoring the Lord's day is honoring the spirit of the sabbath, but of course as NT Christians we are exempt from the letter of the law.

While this might be a rational approach for their purposes it really amounts to just making it up as you go, taking the parts you like, ignoring the parts you don't.

[Gwaithmir]

(10-03-2017 04:01 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Why do some atheists think bits of scientific theories like the static universe theory or Social Darwinism doesn't apply to them?

In answering that, so will you find your answer.

I mean most atheists are more than happy to just blindly accept the big bang theory, and I do mean blindly. Like if you were to tell a blind man that what he was sucking on was a lollipop when it reality it was your... yeah I mean that level of blindness.

Science is to you, what religion is to them, and philosophy makes you somewhere in the middle. Neither side likes the middleman.

> That merely begs the question and fails to answer the original post.

[Celestial_Wonder]

(10-03-2017 09:29 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  

(10-03-2017 04:01 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Why do some atheists think bits of scientific theories like the static universe theory or Social Darwinism doesn't apply to them?

In answering that, so will you find your answer.

I mean most atheists are more than happy to just blindly accept the big bang theory, and I do mean blindly. Like if you were to tell a blind man that what he was sucking on was a lollipop when it reality it was your... yeah I mean that level of blindness.

Science is to you, what religion is to them, and philosophy makes you somewhere in the middle. Neither side likes the middleman.

> That merely begs the question and fails to answer the original post.

Well if you want me to answer the original post (directly), its because most Christians today aren't savages, yet they still want to be good 'moral' Christians. Happy now? happy for that circle jerk? or was that not the answer you were wanting? Did you want me to say its because they're cherry picking bigots who also commit confirmation bias?

Truly though I had already answered his question, they do so because those 'tidbits' upset them, just like the idea of the big bang being wrong 'upsets' most atheists something fierce.

[kim]

(10-03-2017 09:04 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  ---
So if many xtians believe the human sacrifice of Jesus was enough to make all those old laws unnecessary, then why do they insist on the ten commandments as being valid? Why is homosexuality still an abomination? Why is working on a Sunday abhorrent to some?

When you're talking about control, it's all about options and covering all the bases. Control is the overall framework of belief and the measured flexibility of a bottom line is the break point or distinguishing feature.

The Belief Game
Future value of options comes into play when it becomes necessary to be viewed as "progressive". A certain amount of measured flexibility keeps people in the game because they see control to be on their side.

Right now, many individuals are abandoning belief and some churches are clutching at straws to bring those numbers back to the fold. (Ok, ok ... women & gays can be ministers now so, everyone just come on back.) These guys go with the bottom line - quantity over quality.

Other churches insist on riding it out, deciding that their impending demise will eventually swing around. Even if there is only one choosing some arcane dogma, it keeps the bottom line at least in place, until the pendulum swings back to their favor. These guys' bottom line favors quality over quantity.

Everyone in the game places their own stamp of control - the bottom line - on the game. Each carries some risk but then, the game is a massive crapshoot, anyway.

The disturbing thing to me is, none of those people seem to realize it is just a game.

[kemo boy]

(10-03-2017 10:34 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  

(10-03-2017 09:29 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > That merely begs the question and fails to answer the original post.

Well if you want me to answer the original post (directly), its because most Christians today aren't savages, yet they still want to be good 'moral' Christians. Happy now? happy for that circle jerk? or was that not the answer you were wanting? Did you want me to say its because they're cherry picking bigots who also commit confirmation bias?

Truly though I had already answered his question, they do so because those 'tidbits' upset them, just like the idea of the big bang being wrong 'upsets' most atheists something fierce.

And I can state with certainty that you have never encountered an atheist who said they would be upset if ANY scientific theory was shown wrong or incomplete.