Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
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17-12-2010, 02:38 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
None of your posts that that I have read and that are about religion and or god, (or science as it pertains to religion and or god) have been in agreement with me. I have no idea how you came to such a conclusion. The only time you make sense is when you are talking about something that is NOT religion or god (or science as it pertains to religion and or god). You are not stupid. you are just not thinking rationaly on the subjects of god, religion and science as it pertains to religion and god. If you used the same thinking skills in religious and god posts as you do in non-religious and non-god posts we wouldn't be at odds this way. Your are like two totally different people are sharing one user name.
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17-12-2010, 06:37 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
That would seem to be enlightening NoJ: You can see I'm rational when I talk about things other than religion, but when I talk about religion, something you disagree with, you cannot. Now is it me that switches or you?

A central beef with me is that religion says nothing about science. I believe in God, and I find that doesn't lead me to claim anything conflicting with scientific understanding whatsoever... I can't stress that enough. I know an awful lot of Christians, from large uk national meetups and find my views to be consistent with theirs. Online I find other Christians to be likewise. I've never had one take me aside and tell me that I'm wrong. I've certainly pulled up a few Christians myself where I find their arguments to be weak and make illogical scientific claims.

If this is where you think I'm mistaken then I find that to be baseless, as tested over the past few years by myself.

That isn't to say there are not Christians who believe all sorts of things, but fall within what I would acknowledge to be associates in the mainstream Christian Church.

People like Unbeliever will argue until he's blue in the face that I'm making a scientific claim that "God exists". But I do no such thing. He won't accept that, and that's his issue. He just can't let it go.

A major point here is: I'm not trying to convince you to believe in God. I am perfectly happy for you to believe and disbelieve and would defend your right to do so. If you say something I know to be incorrect or illogical I'm drawn to point that out.

You say you have no idea how I came to my (religious) conclusions, therefore they must be illogical. You are making a claim of knowledge on something you also claim not to have knowledge of. Surely what you ought to say is that you don't understand my conclusions.
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18-12-2010, 01:36 PM
 
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
I haven't read all the replies, so I could be repeating this..

But Christians ARE the minority in some Countries. In the Middle East, Christians are being discriminated against, churches burned, and families killed. Even in courts, Christians don't really have any rights.

Yet, the ones who have the loudest voices, always crying about injustices are the ones who are taking their freedoms for granted..
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18-12-2010, 03:04 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
So far fr0d0, there have been at least seven people on this form, including me, who have had arguements with you. You have come to the conclusion that we are all wrong and you are right about many of these discussions. I have not seen the same inconsistancies in any of them. I have also seen some of them admit to being wrong when they learn more about the subject in question. That is something I have not seen in you. Many flaws in your arguements have been pointed out extremely clearly and you have dismissed all of the ones that I know about. I know that you don't see the pattern here. I am just typing for the rest of the people here because you won't learn anything from this, just like you haven't learned anything from anyone else here. As soon as you read this you will go into instant denial without even giving anything I have written as much as a nanosecond of contemplation, just like you do with everyone else's posts.

I have examined my beliefs to great depth many times, and still do. I am an atheist because of what I have learned, not because I wanted to be one. I became an atheist because I wanted to know which christians were right and which were wrong because their beliefs were hugely different and uncomaptable to each others. some of them where wrong. I set off to find out who was right. It took years to come to the knowledge that I now have, and I am now angry because it was a fucking waste of time. As far as I am concerned now. Evidence and proof rule and made-up shit is just shit. Jesus, the christian god, the devil, heaven and hell etc are all made up shit. These are not things I chose to dismiss. I found enough documentation of the history of them to put the last nail in their coffins.

I made none of this stuff up. You have come to this forum with nothing but your opinions and beliefs. Opinions are guesses and beliefs are what people create because they are afraid to say, "I don't know."

Re-read all the posts made to you on this forum and consider that maybe you are the one who has it wrong and you may learn something. Until then, you will learn nothing. Until you put your beliefs on the line they remain untested, and anything untested is unreliable.

I am done. Believe what you want. Continue to make it up as you go. Don't answer this post.
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19-12-2010, 06:57 AM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
I'm a Christian on an atheist forum NoJ. Does it really surprise you that most people wont agree with me? Yet again you pre-judge me. I will freely admit to making a mistake.

You have examined your beliefs and not changed them I assume. I have examined my beliefs and changed them. You haven't discovered the logic behind religious thinking, that's ok. What's not ok is to try to tell someone who understands differently to you that they're wrong, like you're doing. If you're not going to be honest and say "I don't know" then you're stuck in an irrational place. As an atheist you don't have to be. You can hold a rational position and be honest too.

Yet again you fail to engage me. I think you should cross yourself off that list of people that have argued with me, on an actual point on belief anyway.
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19-12-2010, 08:07 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
Actually Fr0d0 he just claimed to have taken years to change his system of belief.

Seriously it is perfectly ok and proper to point out to someone that "understand differently" that they are dead wrong and point out WHY. It is not right to say that without some reason for saying so.

I've pointed out myself numerous times how circular and bogus your "rationality" is. It's not just a disagreement. It's a fact that most of the arguments you have present have been demonstrably wrong.

But I would love to be shown that your not as out there in terms of how you view reality as I'm thinking.

Do you have a single good point that you would like to present that you feel is an especially rational strong point in favor of faith that does not contradict science?
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20-12-2010, 03:21 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
No Godless - he said he took years to come to his beliefs - he started not believing in God, researched this notion through scientific means and guess what? He found out there was no scientific proof of God!

I have presented reasoning Godless but you can't see it. Like the statement above... I can see the obvious flaw in the logic, I'd wager that you do not.

You have made opposing points, which is great, and I thank you for it. Unfortunately though, your reasoning is unsuccessful. You claim more for your logic than is demonstrably provable... and THIS is what makes you wrong.
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20-12-2010, 07:23 PM
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
Scientific and logical means as opposed to what other means? (if any)

That and the man has made no mention of what means he used to reach his conclusion.

One last thing and it's the biggest one that you don't seem to have quite caught onto yet. You can present reasoning that is wrong or badly constructed. This is what I am claiming you have done.

The strongest claim I have ever made is simply that Yahweh is demonstrably false not the claim that there is no god. There is a difference.
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20-12-2010, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2010 11:14 PM by No J..)
RE: Why do christians think they are an oppressed minority?
(20-12-2010 03:21 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  No Godless - he said he took years to come to his beliefs - he started not believing in God, researched this notion through scientific means and guess what? He found out there was no scientific proof of God!

I started by believing in god. I never said anywhere, ever that I started as an atheist. If you had read my posts in the past you would know this.
This is what I mean by you are full of crap. You can't even read something and take it as it is written. By the way, when I said you weren't stupid, I was being overly polite.
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