Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
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19-04-2012, 03:49 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
(19-04-2012 03:27 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(18-04-2012 09:14 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  I think it's more of an artifact of our US history when minorities were refused access to polling places. (Particularly in the South).
The Democrats like to think themselves the defenders of the disenfranchised so they probably get a lot of play by telling their poor constituents that The Man still wants to keep them down by adding requirements to make it "difficult" (not really) to vote, and thus truly become disenfranchised.

I should think that a White Louisanian would be aware of those sort of shenanigans. Tongue
This. It is a smart and lucrative political tactic, but nothing more.
So a Republican lawmaker couldn't genuinely be concerned about voter fraud and the integrity of our voting system?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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19-04-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
(19-04-2012 03:49 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(19-04-2012 03:27 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  This. It is a smart and lucrative political tactic, but nothing more.
So a Republican lawmaker couldn't genuinely be concerned about voter fraud and the integrity of our voting system?
Not genuinely concerned in that voter fraud might go on, but rather, they aren't the ones getting the extra votes.

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19-04-2012, 05:44 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
A lot of the democratic voting bloc is made up of poor people, and a poor person is less likely to have an ID. You can hear this same thing, more or less, from an actual liberal democrat here.




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19-04-2012, 06:58 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
I must bring this up again because it one of the many reasons why voter ID laws should not be instigated.

http://myloc.gov/Exhibitions/naacp/civil...t1957.aspx


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957


So make IDs free, or have no voter ID laws.

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10-05-2012, 05:42 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
*didn't read the above comments so not sure how much has been covered and I'm not a democrat*
-Democrats tend to live in cities, so they can use public export => no drivers license.
-Poor tend to be democrats (?) and are less likely to have I.D.
-It makes voting harder. Seems like a ploy to disenfranchise the common American, regardless of political ideas. Voting rates are already low.
-Voter fraud isn't really an issue. So obviously there is some other secret motive behind it.
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17-05-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
(19-04-2012 06:58 PM)itsacow Wrote:  I must bring this up again because it one of the many reasons why voter ID laws should not be instigated.

http://myloc.gov/Exhibitions/naacp/civil...t1957.aspx


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957


So make IDs free, or have no voter ID laws.
In Wisconsin, the voter ID law is being challenged because apparently free IDs is not good enough for the Dems. The legislation passed included funding to make free picture IDs through the state DMVs for anyone who needs one. The law even allows you to cast your provisional vote so long as you come back by the end of the week and show them you got an ID. The argument seems to be that the DMV is such a pain that merely making people go there to get their free ID would be disenfranchisement.
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17-05-2012, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2012 10:31 AM by kineo.)
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
The idea of voter ID laws, as has been mentioned here, is a method of suppression without cause. Voter fraud of the kind that this type of law would affect is so minimal that it's not an issue. Just think about the numbers of people that would be needed to impact an election in any significant way, with people showing up at the polls to show their ID. Without IDs, yes- someone could go from poll to poll and vote over and over again in some districts. Think about the numbers of people that would be required. If one person spent the day going to 100 different polling places, they'd still only be able to place 100 votes. This would have a minimal impact on a federal election, even a state election for the amount of effort involved. So say you got 100 people to go to 10 polls for a total of 1000 votes. Still a drop in the bucket of a federal election and likely to have minimal impact on a state election- but even more, how are you going to get 100 people to go to 10 polling places and successfully cast a vote without being caught or without one of them blowing the whistle? The scenario is ridiculous. So, even if someone managed to cast a couple of votes, they'd barely have an impact. And studies have shown that voter fraud of this type is absolutely not an issue.

Yes, voter fraud can be an issue. But not of the kind that voter ID laws will stop.

So why have the law then if it's not an issue? Why is it such a big initiative for the right?

The impact it can have on minorities and the poor is real- those more likely to vote dem. It's also an issue for the elderly. If you're a poor person without a car then you're likely dependent on public transportation. To get an ID in some place you may need to spend an entire week day taking off from your job to travel across town, wait in line, and get your picture ID. This just isn't feasible for everyone, and if it's not feasible then it's not likely to happen. That means they won't vote.

Public transportation in the US tends to be pretty shitty unless you happen live in city that has socked a lot of money into it. Most rural or smaller cities have shit for public transport.

That's just one of many possible scenarios where getting an ID is a problem. I'm not that great at arguing politics and law, so I'll leave it to this guy again:



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17-05-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
The idea that the amount of voter fraud is insignificant compared to the amount of disenfranchisement is what really is the supposition, stated without proof. The left will cite a lack of voter fraud prosecutions as evidence that there is no problem, but without any identification being presented at the polling place, there is absolutely no way to determine how much undetected fraud occurs.

I have seen two incidents of definite voter fraud personally. In one incident in the 2000 election, I stood behind an individual who claimed to live at an address that I lived at and could confirm did not live at that address. The poll volunteer likewise lived at that address and knew the person was lying. The poll supervisor allowed them to register and vote over the objection of the poll volunteer. In another incident, an individual I know had their boss fraudulently sign their name on a petition to recall the Wisconsin governor.

I know anecdote is not data, but I'm suspicious of the claim that not enough fraud occurs to matter. In my example at the polling station, any attempt to track down the person who fraudulently registered to vote would be impossible--no ID was required, so that incident never resulted in any prosecution. Voter fraud prosecutions just don't happen because it is very difficult to prove in a court that a specific vote was fraudulent.

The integrity of the vote matters. I agree that we need to make voting accessible, but if once every 8 years you have to make a day trip to get a free ID, I would consider that part of your civi duty and not an unreasonable requirement of citizenship.
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17-05-2012, 05:18 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
You've seen it a couple times, but I've never witnessed voter fraud that I know of. You're right, anecdotes are not evidence. I'm very skeptical that it is a significant enough issue that we need to keep legitimate voters out of the voting booths. Is there a non-biased study that has found in-person voter fraud to be a significant issue that could affect the overall outcome of a vote on a national or state level?
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17-05-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: Why do democrats hate voter ID laws so much?
(17-05-2012 10:24 AM)kineo Wrote:  The idea of voter ID laws, as has been mentioned here, is a method of suppression without cause. Voter fraud of the kind that this type of law would affect is so minimal that it's not an issue. Just think about the numbers of people that would be needed to impact an election in any significant way, with people showing up at the polls to show their ID. Without IDs, yes- someone could go from poll to poll and vote over and over again in some districts. Think about the numbers of people that would be required. If one person spent the day going to 100 different polling places, they'd still only be able to place 100 votes. This would have a minimal impact on a federal election, even a state election for the amount of effort involved. So say you got 100 people to go to 10 polls for a total of 1000 votes. Still a drop in the bucket of a federal election and likely to have minimal impact on a state election- but even more, how are you going to get 100 people to go to 10 polling places and successfully cast a vote without being caught or without one of them blowing the whistle? The scenario is ridiculous. So, even if someone managed to cast a couple of votes, they'd barely have an impact. And studies have shown that voter fraud of this type is absolutely not an issue.

Yes, voter fraud can be an issue. But not of the kind that voter ID laws will stop.

So why have the law then if it's not an issue? Why is it such a big initiative for the right?

The impact it can have on minorities and the poor is real- those more likely to vote dem. It's also an issue for the elderly. If you're a poor person without a car then you're likely dependent on public transportation. To get an ID in some place you may need to spend an entire week day taking off from your job to travel across town, wait in line, and get your picture ID. This just isn't feasible for everyone, and if it's not feasible then it's not likely to happen. That means they won't vote.

Public transportation in the US tends to be pretty shitty unless you happen live in city that has socked a lot of money into it. Most rural or smaller cities have shit for public transport.

That's just one of many possible scenarios where getting an ID is a problem. I'm not that great at arguing politics and law, so I'll leave it to this guy again:



Just had a chance to watch this video. I think it's a really good one. I just have one question about it. Now, it's clear Fox isn't covering this story in a balanced manner. Either they completely disregarded the evidence against it or just didn't do enough homework to get the story right. The former being the most likely. I do wonder though, since opposition to voter ID laws leans heavily on the fact that a very small number of people are doing this, how many people in free ID states are affected by costs like OOS birth certificates? For me, a comparison between these estimated numbers would be key to settling this argument.

That would solve one argument but it's not the most important one. The next would be determining if it's worth it to pay for everyone in a state to have an ID when 1)they aren't required by law, and 2)you can feasibly get by without one. Anyone that knows anything about me is aware of my feelings on more government spending.

So I guess I could entertain the first argument but would most certainly oppose the second unless the voter fraud proved to be seriously detrimental. So as of now I am opposed to the current push for voter ID laws. Now I just need to find out how to rid Louisiana of them. I paid for my license ($32.50) and am required to show it at polls here.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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