Why do forums exist?
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29-02-2012, 07:10 PM
RE: Why do forums exist?
I like #11. I think if I follow that one I don't need to sweat the other ones as much.

And I am wired to enjoy informality much more than formality.

So much so on the informality that adding #11 makes me think of this...

[Image: imager.php?id=703513&t=o]

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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29-02-2012, 07:28 PM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 07:31 PM by DeepThought.)
RE: Why do forums exist?
(29-02-2012 05:53 PM)Zat Wrote:  No, it doesn't! Sad

So far it is only humans and more humans, dressed up as confusion, misunderstanding and going around in circles, seldom reaching a consensus and/or solving problems! Big Grin

As I said: if you like it that way -- more power to you! Tongue

PS.

Yours are the Zeros and mine are the Ones and mine are prettier! Big Grin

Forums exist to provide a community for the scared confused apes shivering from lack of communication skills so they can huddle together on their internet island.

Whether problems are solved or not doesn't seem to be the point...

PS.

My zeros are worth more than your ones because I can divide by zero. You will always just be a one! Tongue

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-02-2012, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 08:27 PM by Zat.)
RE: Why do forums exist?
(29-02-2012 07:28 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  My zeros are worth more than your ones because I can divide by zero.

That will turn you into an infinite.

An infinite what -- I wonder? TongueBig Grin

PS. I will just settle to be THE ONE! Wink


(29-02-2012 06:12 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Often in therapy a therapist will never know what thing they said or did helped specifically, but as long as it was a positive experience for their client then they 'got' something from it and can go further in life. The two could have seen the whole session completely different even though they were both there.

Actually, I have to admit one thing:

After reflecting on the issue, I realize that there are 2 basic ‘styles’ of communication.

The logical style (mine) and the psychological style.

I have been a good Physicist but I have always been a lousy psychologist.

I have difficulty understanding, and communicating with, people who don’t speak my own language.

I recognize that it is not the only possible language – there is the “Machiavellian manipulation” style that Observer recommended to me once.

This style can be VERY useful for therapists and Psychologists to help their patients unearth their problems and suggest possible solutions. If they are good at it I admire and envy them.

However, I wouldn’t use it, even if I could, because it feels slightly dishonest to me, even if it gets results.

I thought I would make this admission to demonstrate one of my communication ‘rules’. Big Grin

ETA:

Erxomai gave me a 'Like" before I added the second part of my post. He may not 'Like' what I said there. I thought, in the interest of fairness, I mention this.
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29-02-2012, 08:40 PM
RE: Why do forums exist?
(29-02-2012 07:30 PM)Zat Wrote:  I have been a good Physicist but I have always been a lousy psychologist.

Nah, it's more like you just got no clue what it's like to be a patient. You've been an atheist all your life. The religious delusions never made it past your doorstep. You can't relate to why a HellboundPreacher might feel the need for some therapy. ... I mean, how could you?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-03-2012, 07:40 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 07:44 AM by Zat.)
RE: Why do forums exist?
(29-02-2012 08:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Nah, it's more like you just got no clue what it's like to be a patient.

That's true, GirlyMan, and I have been very lucky.

It's both an advantage and a handicap, I know. So is the fact that I grew up in a Communist dictatorship -- I wasted many years trying to get out, but I have a much better understanding of the world now, having experienced both sides of the fence.

However, never being brainwashed by religion, I have to use my imagination as opposed to actual experience when trying to understand religion's victims.

This thread is about communication and 'languages'.

I was hoping more people would come forward with specific peeves and recommendations.

Only nach_in and Stark did so far -- there must be a lot more? Huh
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01-03-2012, 08:59 AM
RE: Why do forums exist?
(29-02-2012 07:30 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 07:28 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  My zeros are worth more than your ones because I can divide by zero.

That will turn you into an infinite.

An infinite what -- I wonder? TongueBig Grin

PS. I will just settle to be THE ONE! Wink


(29-02-2012 06:12 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Often in therapy a therapist will never know what thing they said or did helped specifically, but as long as it was a positive experience for their client then they 'got' something from it and can go further in life. The two could have seen the whole session completely different even though they were both there.

Actually, I have to admit one thing:

After reflecting on the issue, I realize that there are 2 basic ‘styles’ of communication.

The logical style (mine) and the psychological style.

I have been a good Physicist but I have always been a lousy psychologist.

I have difficulty understanding, and communicating with, people who don’t speak my own language.

I recognize that it is not the only possible language – there is the “Machiavellian manipulation” style that Observer recommended to me once.

This style can be VERY useful for therapists and Psychologists to help their patients unearth their problems and suggest possible solutions. If they are good at it I admire and envy them.

However, I wouldn’t use it, even if I could, because it feels slightly dishonest to me, even if it gets results.

I thought I would make this admission to demonstrate one of my communication ‘rules’. Big Grin

ETA:

Erxomai gave me a 'Like" before I added the second part of my post. He may not 'Like' what I said there. I thought, in the interest of fairness, I mention this.

I noticed, and I shall let my like stand for your candor. But with provisos, of course. I get the gist that you're saying there are only two styles of communication? I'm not sure that's what you meant, but if so, that doesn't feel right to me. I haven't thought it through completely, but either or doesn't seem sufficient.
I am also curious what you meant by therapists using Machiavellian language to manipulate clients. I know what Machiavellian means, I just wonder how you're applying it to psychology. I ask, because I'm rather offended by the label.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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01-03-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: Why do forums exist?
I'm not going to play the pet peeves game, but I will respond to the question within the title.

What are forums for?

Well, that totally depends on the forum. Some are set up as support networks, others as places for debate or outright arguments, some are set up to trade or buy, some are set up to share in common interest and acquire new interests within the same vein by people who have said similar interests. Etc. There are also the rare type that may have an initial topic but allow the members to define it. these are elusive and as time goes forth become more so. We have one of those here, which is why I won't play the pet peeves game. I like it here, and I wouldn't if it weren't for this one thing, and it's this one thing that causes many of the issues others complain about. Good with bad. Good out weighs.

So now we come to what is our forum for?

That's up to you. And everyone else. Lucky ducks. There is one underlying unifying factor which is religion. I can't say atheism, because we aren't all atheists. But religion is the main catalyst obviously. However as has been shown, it doesn't need to be the only proponent to discussion. Because of our interesting amalgam of members, we often have the most interesting of discussions. I really enjoy reading them, even when I'm not partaking. I'm like a lurker in the night these days.
We have people who come here for support, or for humor, or for venting. People who want political discussion (Zat) and those who want Philosophy to be top dog. It's such an interesting mix that it rarely gets stale around here.
The only thing this place shouldn't be for is bullying. And porn. Maybe more.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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01-03-2012, 09:27 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 09:34 AM by Zat.)
RE: Why do forums exist?
(01-03-2012 08:59 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  I get the gist that you're saying there are only two styles of communication? I'm not sure that's what you meant, but if so, that doesn't feel right to me. I haven't thought it through completely, but either or doesn't seem sufficient.

I was only saying that I am aware of these 2. I am sure there are a lot more.

Quote:I am also curious what you meant by therapists using Machiavellian language to manipulate clients. I know what Machiavellian means, I just wonder how you're applying it to psychology. I ask, because I'm rather offended by the label.

I was referring to a post by Observer. I did not mean to say that therapists are Machiavellian, in the bad sense of the word -- only that they have to learn to push the right buttons in the right sequence to guide their patients in the direction that might provide a cure.

For me it is manipulation of another human being and that is why I could not use it.

I only used the word "Machiavellian" because Observer did and I wanted to reference that post. I am sure Observer did not mean it in the negative sense either.

Here it the post I was referring to.

(13-02-2012 04:17 PM)Observer Wrote:  
(13-02-2012 04:08 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(13-02-2012 03:38 PM)Observer Wrote:  What you call manipulation, I call diplomacy. Wink

Observer, are you familiar with the Disc-world series by Terry Partchett?

Sounds like Lord Vetinari is your idol!

There are times, there are times.... Big Grin

I'm not familiar with it. Might give it a try.

I do like Niccolò Machiavelli thoug... Big Grin
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01-03-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: Why do forums exist?
(01-03-2012 09:27 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 08:59 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  I get the gist that you're saying there are only two styles of communication? I'm not sure that's what you meant, but if so, that doesn't feel right to me. I haven't thought it through completely, but either or doesn't seem sufficient.

I was only saying that I am aware of these 2. I am sure there are a lot more.

Quote:I am also curious what you meant by therapists using Machiavellian language to manipulate clients. I know what Machiavellian means, I just wonder how you're applying it to psychology. I ask, because I'm rather offended by the label.

I was referring to a post by Observer tome. I did not mean to say that therapists are Machiavellian, in the bad sense of the word -- only that they have to learn to push the right button in the right sequence to guide their patients in the direction that might provide a cure.

For me it is manipulation of another human being and that is why I could not use it.

I only used the word "Machiavellian" because Observer did and I wanted to reference that post. I am sure Observer did not mean it in the negative sense either.

Here it the post I was referring to.

(13-02-2012 04:17 PM)Observer Wrote:  
(13-02-2012 04:08 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(13-02-2012 03:38 PM)Observer Wrote:  What you call manipulation, I call diplomacy. Wink

Observer, are you familiar with the Disc-world series by Terry Partchett?

Sounds like Lord Vetinari is your idol!

There are times, there are times.... Big Grin

I'm not familiar with it. Might give it a try.

I do like Niccolò Machiavelli thoug... Big Grin

See how I asked questions when I didn't quite get the point rather than raining down the wrath of Jung upon you because I made the wrong assumption? You're getting through to this unbeliever!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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01-03-2012, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 09:44 AM by Zat.)
RE: Why do forums exist?
(01-03-2012 09:32 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  See how I asked questions when I didn't quite get the point rather than raining down the wrath of Jung upon you because I made the wrong assumption? You're getting through to this unbeliever!

Praise the LORD! Big Grin


(01-03-2012 09:24 AM)lucradis Wrote:  People who want political discussion (Zat) and those who want Philosophy to be top dog.

Actually, I am passionately interested in questions of social justice and the ethical (Philosophical) principles that define it.

The daily nitty-gritty of Politics (like who wins the next election, etc) leaves me completely cold and uninterested.

I thought I needed to clarify this.
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