Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
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18-12-2014, 07:49 PM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?
I'm on another website at the moment that isn't based of religion or non religion however there is a religious section.

Iv'e seen two posts 1 saying: Why are atheists always attacking Christians as if we are some evil beings. Evil_monster
And another talking about how they are horrible because they are taking down all the Christians Christmas singes and items from the streets or whatever.

I honestly want you guys opinion iv'e never gotten into this debate or argument
as i find it wrong to just rip away parts of their beliefs, but at the same time i don't find it wrong to put ours up either. What's is really going on?

There is a culture of persecution in Christian circles, a certain longing to be like a holy martyr. The preachers/priests rail from the pulpit about the unbelievers, they have a twisted and prejudiced view towards something they fear and loathe at the same time.
They pass this bigotry and hate onto their flock, we see it manifested in numerous inane social media posts, and the constant stream of theists coming on this forum to teach us about Jeebus that are infected with Crusader's syndrome, too bad they can't figure out they only reinforce the worst opinions we have about theists when they act out on this forum and other places.

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18-12-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 05:11 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  ---
... i find it wrong to just rip away parts of their beliefs, but at the same time i don't find it wrong to put ours up either.

Well, I can only speak for myself but I don't have a belief. Shy
***

It may be possible that some religious folk do not understand why people become annoyed when they try to shove their religion down someone's throat. I gather they think the other person should welcome it.

Do you welcome it, atheist? Are you comfortable when someone tries to manipulate you and insists you believe something, when you know you do not?

Perhaps, what is the expression of self awareness by a non-theist person might be perceived as "attacking" to a theist person.

Also, some theists might just be complaining in order to get sympathy while providing erroneous information about non-theists.

The whole situation seems to be a bit of a pity-party. Drinking Beverage

Sorry Kim
Everybody has beliefs. What matters is why they believe.
If you believe without a good reason, that is faith.
It would be more accurate to say you have no faith.
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18-12-2014, 11:46 PM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 07:49 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?

There is a culture of persecution in Christian circles, a certain longing to be like a holy martyr. The preachers/priests rail from the pulpit about the unbelievers, they have a twisted and prejudiced view towards something they fear and loathe at the same time.
They pass this bigotry and hate onto their flock, we see it manifested in numerous inane social media posts, and the constant stream of theists coming on this forum to teach us about Jeebus that are infected with Crusader's syndrome, too bad they can't figure out they only reinforce the worst opinions we have about theists when they act out on this forum and other places.

It's a good meme for keeping the sheep in line Smile Foundational meme of Christian faith is that "ye shall be persecuted in my name". Problem. We are the majority. Who the fuck is persecuting us? Well, see those atheists over there trying to get the ten commandments taken down from our school building/courthouse, see them refusing to patriotically say "under God", see them *laughing* at us online. That's persecution folks.

Look at all the evil in the world. People getting raped, murders in the name of Allah, 9/11, the economy going to shit, earthquakes, tsunamis, women's rights. Did you know that Muslims in America have the same rights as everyone else??? Know what that is? That's two things: 1. Buttsecks 2. The Enemy is getting stronger. Armageddon is arriving. 3. That's persecution. Er... 3 things. Never mind, us pastors sometimes make basic arithmetic errors. What's important is the message after all.

Anyway, the meme is useful because fearing the other makes people more inclined to keep in line themselves. Also by fearing the other, when people do e.g. talk to atheists they're already primed from a biased viewpoint, so things like us not having a problem with swearing (very de rigeur in most religious circles), being OK with buttsecks etc, tend to just add to the old confirmation bias. Which is exactly what you want as a pastor if you're looking to make sure that anyone in your flock gets a bad impression of what atheism is.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-12-2014, 12:02 AM (This post was last modified: 19-12-2014 12:07 AM by kim.)
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 11:10 PM)RogueWarrior Wrote:  Sorry Kim
Everybody has beliefs. What matters is why they believe.
If you believe without a good reason, that is faith.
It would be more accurate to say you have no faith.

Ooh, that's true - you're right.
Faith is belief without evidence.

I gotta pay better attention to how I'm responding. Blush

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19-12-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 05:44 PM)kim Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 05:36 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  ---
however are atheists seriously taking there singes or writings down of the streets?
or is it another exaggerated claim or a true claim without the fully story?

Possibly a bit of both...
If I live in a city where I pay taxes for the upkeep of public property, I may not want my tax dollars going to fund a religious scene in the public park... which I pay for.

If a religious sign is on PRIVATE or church property, I'm as tolerant as the next guy.

If someone wants the 10 commandments in the city or federal building which my tax dollars paid for... I would have to advise them that such religious stuff does not belong there.

Just examples. I personally don't give a single shit about any of it. Shy

Somebody stated they can't do that to religion because it's in the constitution?
sorry if i spelled that wrong. But i'm curious as if it says anything inside of it that states they can have religious items outside in public.
I don't care much either yet i am kinda curious
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19-12-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?

This and tribalism sums up most of it:

[Image: christianoppressionpie.png?w=295&h=300]

American Christians are in a very solid majority and they have a lot of privileges of which many of them are not even aware. So, when some minority group comes up and wants equal treatment, many Christians see this as the minority taking something from them. Now, in many ways, this is true, but they're ignoring the context that the other person just wants their fair share.

Also, the idea of persecution is hugely important to Christians. Jesus was persecuted (supposedly, and only sort of). Jesus told people that they would be persecuted because of him. So, your average American fundie looks at how the world is becoming increasingly secular, and when they're told that gay people can now get married in their state, they feel persecuted. They'll cherry pick for examples of a person getting fired for being Christian (often for ignoring a company's rules on aggressive proselytizing) while ignoring laws on the books against hiring atheists. They'll point to Christians who were executed for their faith in other countries or in other times as evidence of ongoing persecution.

It is really a weird world they live in. On a related note, if you talk to any of them long enough, you'll get this vibe that they actually like being persecuted. It's a very much love-hate sort of thing. They don't like that they feel attacked, but they like the solidarity and sense of purpose it offers them.


(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  I honestly want you guys opinion iv'e never gotten into this debate or argument
as i find it wrong to just rip away parts of their beliefs, but at the same time i don't find it wrong to put ours up either. What's is really going on?

This is a common double standard. The thing with religion is, it gets special treatment by society. No one can prove their religion, and they don't want their beliefs infringed upon, so they say that you can follow any religious beliefs so long as you aren't harming others (except for not letting gay people get married). The idea is these beliefs are considered sacred, so they get some super special status.

So, you have a bunch of theists making super special, positive claims about nonfalsifiable things, and atheists are seeing as just not making any special claims. This leads them to believe that they need to be able to believe these things because they're super important, but because atheists lack super special beliefs, they just need to shut up and let people believe what they want to believe.

Now, I can actually get behind that, to a point. I take exception when their super special beliefs turn into super special laws about what other people must or must not do. This is bad, and it needs to stop.
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19-12-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 06:35 PM)f stop Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?
Because they find comfort in their belief. We question that belief. They don't want to think about it. They feel threatened so in their view we are attacking them.

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19-12-2014, 08:10 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
It's interesting that you can look at a lot of the old writings of Tertullian and see that all the things the pagans were saying about Christians are the same as what Christians say about atheists now. (Christians were actually called atheists for not believing in the Greco-Roman pantheon) Tertullian talked a lot about the horrible things people assumed about Christians and how they were vile, rudderless people, but that they never took the time to investigate the beliefs for themselves.

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19-12-2014, 08:57 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?

I think it's a combination of things. For many religious people, religion is like a part of themselves, so when atheists point out the faults with religion, they take it as a personal attack.

When atheists make headlines with things like trying to remove the 10 commandments from a courthouse or "in god we trust" off of currency, etc., then this stands out to them as another "personal" attack, especially if they support those specific things.

But I don't think we should overlook the fact that some atheists DO attack theists. I have been on websites where I have seen atheist being downright rude to believers. Often it's in commentary under a news article on a news site so it's not even on a website dedicated to religion or atheism.

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19-12-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(18-12-2014 04:57 PM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Why do you think people claim that Atheists are attacking them?
I'm on another website at the moment that isn't based of religion or non religion however there is a religious section.

Iv'e seen two posts 1 saying: Why are atheists always attacking Christians as if we are some evil beings. Evil_monster
And another talking about how they are horrible because they are taking down all the Christians Christmas singes and items from the streets or whatever.

I honestly want you guys opinion iv'e never gotten into this debate or argument
as i find it wrong to just rip away parts of their beliefs, but at the same time i don't find it wrong to put ours up either. What's is really going on?

Because we are attacking them. Just not the way they want to portray it.

We "attack" religion, not to force it out of existence, but to keep it off a pedestal. We also attack it because it is full of absurdities as far as claims go. Just like one would rightfully attack someone claiming Thor makes lightening and truly believed it.

If you had a friend walking around claiming "The New York Yankees won the Superbowl", wouldn't such an absurd claim bother you?

The reason they paint us as evil, is because that is much easier to do than self introspection. Demonize the questioner.

Oh and human beings are not evil merely for existing, but unchallenged claims and the fans of those claims demanding no challenge to those claims, that IS evil.

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