Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
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13-01-2015, 10:54 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
Here are some of the signers of the Dec from http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10...dence.html and their statements, including their clear declarations that they were supporting freedom from Christians in the colonies.

•Adams, Samuel - Congregationalist. "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Also: "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)

•Carroll, Charles - Roman Catholic. Carroll said, "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

•Chase, Samuel - Chase was an Episcopalian. As a Supreme Court Justince he said, "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."

•Harrison, Benjamin - Harrison was a member of the Episcopal church. He professed that religion was necessary to society and that government should support it.

•Hooper, William - Hooper was an Episcopalian. He was trained at Harvard as a minister.

•Paine, Robert - Paine left Calvinism to become a Unitarian. He served as a military chaplain. He said, "I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state."

•Rush, Benjamin - Rush was a Presbyterian. He was founder and manager of the Philadelphia Bible Society

•Smith, James - Smith was a Presbyterian. He was quite strick that those in his presense should not speak ill of Christianity.

•Stockton, Richard - Stockton was a Presbyterian. He said, "I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but also, in the bowels of a father's affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness."

•Williams, William - Williams was a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. He studied for the ministry.

•Witherspoon, John - Witherspoon was a Presbyterian. He said, "[S]hun, as a contagious pestilence,... those especially whom you perceive to be infected with the principles of infidelity or [who are] enemies to the power of religion"

•Wythe, George - Wythe was a member of the Episcopal church. He helped draft instructions for an embassy in Canada, which said, "You are further to declare that we hold sacred the rights of conscience, and may promise to the whole people, solemnly in our name, the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion. And...that all civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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13-01-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(13-01-2015 10:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Here are some of the signers of the Dec from http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10...dence.html and their statements, including their clear declarations that they were supporting freedom from Christians in the colonies.

•Adams, Samuel - Congregationalist. "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Also: "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)

•Carroll, Charles - Roman Catholic. Carroll said, "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

•Chase, Samuel - Chase was an Episcopalian. As a Supreme Court Justince he said, "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."

•Harrison, Benjamin - Harrison was a member of the Episcopal church. He professed that religion was necessary to society and that government should support it.

•Hooper, William - Hooper was an Episcopalian. He was trained at Harvard as a minister.

•Paine, Robert - Paine left Calvinism to become a Unitarian. He served as a military chaplain. He said, "I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state."

•Rush, Benjamin - Rush was a Presbyterian. He was founder and manager of the Philadelphia Bible Society

•Smith, James - Smith was a Presbyterian. He was quite strick that those in his presense should not speak ill of Christianity.

•Stockton, Richard - Stockton was a Presbyterian. He said, "I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but also, in the bowels of a father's affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness."

•Williams, William - Williams was a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. He studied for the ministry.

•Witherspoon, John - Witherspoon was a Presbyterian. He said, "[S]hun, as a contagious pestilence,... those especially whom you perceive to be infected with the principles of infidelity or [who are] enemies to the power of religion"

•Wythe, George - Wythe was a member of the Episcopal church. He helped draft instructions for an embassy in Canada, which said, "You are further to declare that we hold sacred the rights of conscience, and may promise to the whole people, solemnly in our name, the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion. And...that all civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination."

The leading men among the founders were largely deists (and Freemasons), not Christians.

Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine
James Madison
George Washington

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-01-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
Again you said WRITERS.. not signers. If you first wilfully admit you shifted the argument then It can be accepted you are onto something.

Even though still... them being of their specific christian sects doesn't mean anything. They also didn't all identify as Christians in that era and denominations and their differences were actually pretty known. That's why they often identify by denomination specifically. Even with their Christian beliefs... that doesn't mean the way you see it through your current christian mindset is the way they intended it. Though it's worth pointing out still, what a couple specific ratifiers opinion of it don't matter nearly as significantly as who actually wrote and edited the words position.

I would say John Adams from most accounts seemed to be an earnest Christian believer.

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13-01-2015, 11:32 AM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(13-01-2015 10:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Here are some of the signers of the Dec from http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10...dence.html and their statements, including their clear declarations that they were supporting freedom from Christians in the colonies.

"freedom from Christians" --- now that I can get behind!
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Too bad for your argument that none of these people actually got support for Christianity written into the government instead of supporting a document that clearly keeps the two distinct.

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13-01-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Why do people claim Atheists are attacking them?
(13-01-2015 11:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 10:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Here are some of the signers of the Dec from http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10...dence.html and their statements, including their clear declarations that they were supporting freedom from Christians in the colonies.

•Adams, Samuel - Congregationalist. "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Also: "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)

•Carroll, Charles - Roman Catholic. Carroll said, "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

•Chase, Samuel - Chase was an Episcopalian. As a Supreme Court Justince he said, "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."

•Harrison, Benjamin - Harrison was a member of the Episcopal church. He professed that religion was necessary to society and that government should support it.

•Hooper, William - Hooper was an Episcopalian. He was trained at Harvard as a minister.

•Paine, Robert - Paine left Calvinism to become a Unitarian. He served as a military chaplain. He said, "I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state."

•Rush, Benjamin - Rush was a Presbyterian. He was founder and manager of the Philadelphia Bible Society

•Smith, James - Smith was a Presbyterian. He was quite strick that those in his presense should not speak ill of Christianity.

•Stockton, Richard - Stockton was a Presbyterian. He said, "I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but also, in the bowels of a father's affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness."

•Williams, William - Williams was a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. He studied for the ministry.

•Witherspoon, John - Witherspoon was a Presbyterian. He said, "[S]hun, as a contagious pestilence,... those especially whom you perceive to be infected with the principles of infidelity or [who are] enemies to the power of religion"

•Wythe, George - Wythe was a member of the Episcopal church. He helped draft instructions for an embassy in Canada, which said, "You are further to declare that we hold sacred the rights of conscience, and may promise to the whole people, solemnly in our name, the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion. And...that all civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination."

The leading men among the founders were largely deists (and Freemasons), not Christians.

Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine
James Madison
George Washington

I can see your point. The Christians were meeker people and so less flashy/less on the stage. Smile But seriously, that is a good point, Chas.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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