Why do people continue to be stupid?
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05-06-2015, 03:41 PM
Why do people continue to be stupid?
I've done cold readings and read runes. Even learned a few tricks from someone I knew who was dragged to a John Edward show.

Even after I explain how it's done, you still get that one yahoo who believes it's real.
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06-06-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(05-06-2015 12:55 PM)kim Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 08:35 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I also have a friend that believes she physic, she uses Tarot cards. I told her next time you do a reading. Say the opposite of what the card says, and watch how the person reacts. She didn't feel it was honest.

She's right about it not being honest ... as far as she's concerned. The cards can be broadly related to anything and anyone. It's like an interpretation of a poem - everyone interprets relative to themselves. Its like a horoscope - you have to deliberately read adversely to fuck it up... and that would be dishonest.

Tarot cards have an explicit vocabulary of symbols so, a 'reading' can be done by anyone.

A reading is an interesting process of working 'with' a client to let them guide the read. The client opens up trust, and bit by bit, is really the one making their own decisions. The reader is just a guide to help establish interpretation and reinforcement of security and decisions. It's like having several heart to heart conversations with a friend and getting their feedback and their encouragement, to get your guts up about something troubling you. (And paying them and not being fucked up about someone knowing all your shit.)

I hypothesize that processes such as Tarot (palmistry, etc.,.) were somewhat the forerunner of psychotherapy. The processes are similar in that one person helps another with difficult decisions and possible insecurities ... but really, the person being 'helped' is doing most of the work. I find it a very interesting topic.

The cards are there to reinforce trust, decisions, confidence and security. Security for the client's decision-making and job security for the reader. Wink

Though I have no idea, I'd say your friend is most probably NOT psychic. But I bet she honestly believes she can help people with 'insight' she is able to provide from the cards that come up in front of her.

Well that's the problem isn't it.

I wasn't asking her to if she get a finance card to say it is death card. I'm saying if she gets a finance card that lead her to believe her read was going to make a lot of money to say she was going to loose a lot of money.

She felt she said she never thought she had gained Psychic abilities after she got these cards. I was told by her that people she read where very responsive to everything she said.

My test I presented to her was if the person she was reading was told "It show's here you have a positive love life." and was yeah i totally do. And she told her that because "the cards" told her to say "It show's here your struggling with your love life." Because now if they respond with a yeah i totally do. She would be able to see the reading was bogus. She would be able to see the party that has already taken it upon themselves to sit down and go threw with is is an accepting party that will try to make connections with everything she says.

I feel it to be dishonest. As a whole. There are people that make a fortune off of the "suffering" of others. And filling a whole with lies wont always make it better.

I should also mention that she's a professional psychologist. And I found it very surprising that she would have fallen into this.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-06-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(06-06-2015 09:43 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I feel it to be dishonest. As a whole. There are people that make a fortune off of the "suffering" of others. And filling a whole with lies wont always make it better.

I should also mention that she's a professional psychologist. And I found it very surprising that she would have fallen into this.

I feel that anyone stating emphatically that they are 'psychic' is completely dishonest. Even if one believes personal 'experiences' are evidence of such an ability, there would need to be a lot of examination & replication of those experiences before integrity could reasonably (and rationally) expand beyond personal.

Confused. I'm also quite surprised and kind of disturbed that she's a psychologist and still makes these claims! But then, many people in that field also believe there is a god. I guess they'll let anyone be a shrink, huh?

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-06-2015, 10:38 AM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(05-06-2015 12:55 PM)kim Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 08:35 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I also have a friend that believes she physic, she uses Tarot cards. I told her next time you do a reading. Say the opposite of what the card says, and watch how the person reacts. She didn't feel it was honest.

She's right about it not being honest ... as far as she's concerned. The cards can be broadly related to anything and anyone. It's like an interpretation of a poem - everyone interprets relative to themselves. Its like a horoscope - you have to deliberately read adversely to fuck it up... and that would be dishonest.

Tarot cards have an explicit vocabulary of symbols so, a 'reading' can be done by anyone.

A reading is an interesting process of working 'with' a client to let them guide the read. The client opens up trust, and bit by bit, is really the one making their own decisions. The reader is just a guide to help establish interpretation and reinforcement of security and decisions. It's like having several heart to heart conversations with a friend and getting their feedback and their encouragement, to get your guts up about something troubling you. (And paying them and not being fucked up about someone knowing all your shit.)

I hypothesize that processes such as Tarot (palmistry, etc.,.) were somewhat the forerunner of psychotherapy. The processes are similar in that one person helps another with difficult decisions and possible insecurities ... but really, the person being 'helped' is doing most of the work. I find it a very interesting topic.

The cards are there to reinforce trust, decisions, confidence and security. Security for the client's decision-making and job security for the reader. Wink

Though I have no idea, I'd say your friend is most probably NOT psychic. But I bet she honestly believes she can help people with 'insight' she is able to provide from the cards that come up in front of her.

On my five-year road to rationality after losing my faith, I took up Tarot. I didn't regard it as divination by any means, but rather, simply another lens through which I might view the issues I had in mind at the time. It did help teach me to internalize other possible ways of looking at something, so that it became easier to understand different perspectives.
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06-06-2015, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2015 11:18 AM by kim.)
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(06-06-2015 10:38 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(05-06-2015 12:55 PM)kim Wrote:  She's right about it not being honest ... as far as she's concerned. The cards can be broadly related to anything and anyone. It's like an interpretation of a poem - everyone interprets relative to themselves. Its like a horoscope - you have to deliberately read adversely to fuck it up... and that would be dishonest.

Tarot cards have an explicit vocabulary of symbols so, a 'reading' can be done by anyone.

A reading is an interesting process of working 'with' a client to let them guide the read. The client opens up trust, and bit by bit, is really the one making their own decisions. The reader is just a guide to help establish interpretation and reinforcement of security and decisions. It's like having several heart to heart conversations with a friend and getting their feedback and their encouragement, to get your guts up about something troubling you. (And paying them and not being fucked up about someone knowing all your shit.)

I hypothesize that processes such as Tarot (palmistry, etc.,.) were somewhat the forerunner of psychotherapy. The processes are similar in that one person helps another with difficult decisions and possible insecurities ... but really, the person being 'helped' is doing most of the work. I find it a very interesting topic.

The cards are there to reinforce trust, decisions, confidence and security. Security for the client's decision-making and job security for the reader. Wink

Though I have no idea, I'd say your friend is most probably NOT psychic. But I bet she honestly believes she can help people with 'insight' she is able to provide from the cards that come up in front of her.

On my five-year road to rationality after losing my faith, I took up Tarot. I didn't regard it as divination by any means, but rather, simply another lens through which I might view the issues I had in mind at the time. It did help teach me to internalize other possible ways of looking at something, so that it became easier to understand different perspectives.

That's pretty much the reasoning surrounding my hypothesis... it allows one to scrutinize one's deeper self from ... 'the outside' / another perspective/ 'the cards' ... much the same exercise a therapist would provide.

Of course, a modicum of objectivity must be involved to guide one through the emotional maze in a rational manner. That would be the job of the reader / therapist. In my opinion, Tarot was very akin to low level counseling or therapy.... before science came along.

Obviously, anything can be subject to exploitation and corruption when another person is involved. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-06-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
There are people for whom "stupid" is their natural condition.

I call these people "republicans."

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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06-06-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(05-06-2015 02:05 PM)Tonechaser77 Wrote:  In light of the OP's article I was reminded of a situation that occurred when I was a worship leader at a progressive charasmatic church in Cleveland.

There was a song that we would often play called "Healer" that was written by Mike Guglielmucci and went on one of Hillsong's highest selling albums, This is Our God. Following a hospital visit for a minor accident, Mike announced to the public that he was terminally ill and dying of cancer. His apparent struggle with cancer was what provided the inspiration to write the song. As a former sensationalist pentacostal christian it was one of those songs that would bring me to tears each time I heard it.

The song went on to become a hit and Mike went on to perform ‘Healer’ at various concerts over a two-year period. During this time, he was visibly suffering cancer symptoms such as difficulty breathing, severe pain and hair loss.

However, the stack of lies and deceit all came crumbling down when his father, pastor of Edge Church, announced in 2008 that Mike had fabricated the cancer story. In fact, it emerged that he lied to create a diversion from a 16-year battle with pornography addiction.

Epic Fail bro. Epic fail. But, I know Hillsong got damn rich bringing in money from the album and concert sales. I can't say for sure but I doubt they gave that money back.

Here's the link....still get goosebumps listening to this shit and it pisses me off! He's even wearing a fucking breathing tube in the damn video Gasp Facepalm Goes to show you just how powerful music and cognitive bias can be though.




Man oh man, it's stuff like that that played into my initial agnosticism and me leaving the church.

A simple question went through my mind in the aftermath of the revolving doors of con-artists that went through all of these churches- how can you determine the difference between a con-man and an actual, sincere person of god?

The answer is - you can't! There is no discernible difference between legitimate believers and con-artists, there is no way to tell the difference.

I saw many of these people who claimed they could "discern with the holy spirit" fall for these con-men that went through my church.

It became apparent to me, that this was a culture that was rotten to the core, they had no way to distinguish between the criminal or the "Christ-like".

I thought -If you can't distinguish between the two, maybe there is no substantive difference, maybe there's no reason to believe any of this crap.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-06-2015, 01:11 PM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(05-06-2015 03:41 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I've done cold readings and read runes. Even learned a few tricks from someone I knew who was dragged to a John Edward show.

Even after I explain how it's done, you still get that one yahoo who believes it's real.

It's a little similar to people that believe crop circles are done by aliens in the middle of the night. I got into a discussion with someone who really believed this rubbish even though I showed him several youtube videos of people making the damn crop circles. He said, well... some might be made by regular people but most of them are made by aliens as a way of communicating with us. Facepalm

These people are a lost cause.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-06-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
Yes, it takes a village to raise a child. Then, you run across the village idiot and you have to wonder what the hell is goining on there. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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06-06-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Why do people continue to be stupid?
(06-06-2015 10:38 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  On my five-year road to rationality after losing my faith, I took up Tarot. I didn't regard it as divination by any means, but rather, simply another lens through which I might view the issues I had in mind at the time. It did help teach me to internalize other possible ways of looking at something, so that it became easier to understand different perspectives.

I too took up Tarot, as well as I Ching, and Astrology. Right at the end of my Theist life. I found that it was me giving myself the answers to what I was looking for. Each of the system have one very same similarity. Broad answers. So broad that you, fill in the gaps and make the connections for the subject matter your looking for.

There are many ways of looking at possible ways of looking at something. The first that pops to mind is Shrooms. But if you asked me which of the two you should try i would probable choose the Tarot.

But wouldn't have been better instead of having to resort "mystical powers" someone just showed you how to be a critical thinker? Weighting options. I also in my RL tend to be very open about my life. I talk about personal issues with close friends and will be really open (within reason) about my personal life. They have helped me come to different conclusions, and perspectives as well.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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