Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
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04-03-2014, 05:16 AM
Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
I mean, we should be as Secular as Europe is but we shouldn't be JUST like them. America is America. We are a mix of different cultures.
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04-03-2014, 05:26 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
(04-03-2014 05:16 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  I mean, we should be as Secular as Europe is but we shouldn't be JUST like them. America is America. We are a mix of different cultures.

I'd be very surprised if I saw somebody argue that the US should become covered in many nations, most with greatly varying cultures and languages held together (very arguably) mostly for economic and defence purposes.

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04-03-2014, 05:39 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
(04-03-2014 05:16 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  I mean, we should be as Secular as Europe is but we shouldn't be JUST like them. America is America. We are a mix of different cultures.

The U.S should not be just like Europe. It should model its education system, economics system, and legal system off of Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Norway.

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04-03-2014, 05:41 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
(04-03-2014 05:16 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  ...
America is America. We are a mix of different cultures.

Oh yeah, 'cause Europe is just one culture. Silly me, I forgot that.

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04-03-2014, 05:43 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
(04-03-2014 05:16 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  I mean, we should be as Secular as Europe is but we shouldn't be JUST like them. America is America. We are a mix of different cultures.

Europe is a mix of different cultures, countries, currencies and languages.
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04-03-2014, 06:00 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
This is an incoherent question. What are you asking?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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04-03-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
(04-03-2014 05:39 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The U.S should not be just like Europe. It should model its education system, economics system, and legal system off of Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Norway.

Model the US after Sweden? Why not Switzerland? Let's compare the pros and cons:

1. Realistic achievability. Advantage: Switzerland

Sweden is able to take such a large percent of tax revenue because they have flat, non-progressive tax rates. Every Swede gives up at least half his income in taxes. But this only works because Sweden is almost 100% liberal and homogeneous, so every Swede agrees to this--or moves out. In a country as divided as the US, liberals will never get the conservatives to agree to this. Switzerland, however, is, like the US deeply divided, it also has a diverse culture, 4 different language groups, a very high percentage of immigrants. The Swiss system is one that both left and right can live with, whereas the Swedish system only works if the population is universally left.

2. Legal framework. Advantage: Switzerland

The Swiss system is actually the US system. They modeled their constitution after the US's, and the only difference is they stuck to it. So to follow the Swiss system in the US requires only following the rule of law as laid out in the constitution. No legal changes required.

3. Economic strength. Advantage: Switzerland

The Swiss earn a lot more, they are more wealthy, they have lower unemployment and a stronger economy.

4. Quality and efficiency of government services. Advantage: Switzerland

Both Sweden and Switzerland offer good government services. Both have a highly regarded education system, both have good infrastructure, etc. The main difference is the Swiss government is so much more efficient it accomplishes this with only half the tax revenue of Sweden. Why pay more for the same thing?

5. Safety net. Advantage: Switzerland

In both countries there is no poverty and nobody is left behind. However the Swiss system is widely recognized as doing an excellent job of eliminating inter-generational dependency, whereas this is a real problem in Sweden.

6. Scalability. Advantage: Switzerland

The Swiss model is based on de-centralized control, with smaller autonomous regions. Therefore, it's scalable as you add more regions to be a big country like the US. A centrally-managed system, however, is very difficult to scale since you add on layers of bureaucracy and the decision-makers get further removed from the people they're affecting.

I could go on and keep listing more and more benefits. But my question to you is why you favor the Swedish system over the Swiss system given that it costs twice as much and accomplishes less? Do you have any real, pragmatic answers, any real pro&con analysis? My guess is you simply refused to consider Switzerland because it's a libertarian paradise with a strong commitment to individual liberty and respecting everyone's right to exercise free will. To a liberal, this is a non-starter, no matter how successful the model proves to be.

Prove me wrong, and show me that you actually had reasons for picking Sweden besides just that it has a big government and high taxes and suits your ideology?
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04-03-2014, 10:49 PM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
This is like asking whether horse flies should be horses with wings. The US is what it is, and Europe is what it is, and the two will continue to evolve however they evolve, independent of what anyone thinks should happen.

A more productive line of questioning might be: who's legal system works best, or why is violent crime higher in the US than the UK, or why did Norway's murder rate triple in the most recently reported stats...etc.

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07-03-2014, 03:39 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
I don't think I've heard anyone say the US should be just like Europe.
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09-03-2014, 02:14 AM
RE: Why do people think the US should be Just like Europe
An American who would say the US should be just like (a) Europe(an) (country)? heh

There are aspects of certain governments that function better than others, and hence there will be comparisons. Sometimes its not a bad thing to look to others for solution ideas when we don't have a functional one.
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