Why do some believe in a purpose?
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08-05-2013, 06:02 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
Well, wow!

Fuck me sideways.

I actually found myself agreeing with Egor.

It all hinges on the definition of 'purpose'...
Goal?
Objective?
Value?
Meaning?
Vision?
Mission?

Ultimately and I mean really, really ultimately, at the end of all things... 'purpose' is indeed vanity.

Smile

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08-05-2013, 06:03 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
(07-05-2013 09:16 AM)Hennepin Wrote:  I'm hoping that maybe someone with a background in pscychology or neuroscience might be able to help me here, if this question has already been addressed.

From my perspective, I have no reason to believe that we as a species have any purpose. Although I keep seeing and hearing the message of purpose being touted by many religious followers and preechers alike. I used to buy into it thinking that there must be a reason, but I've moved away from that opinion as I've considered the potential outcomes.

I feel that having no universal purpose free's me up to establish my own purposes and reasons for the way I choose to live my life and the decisions I have to make on a daily basis.

But I still wonder what reason there might be that we seem to innately crave a reason for our existence.

The purpose of life.

Some people consider it the eternal question; one which we shall never be able to answer. Others think through deep reflection one may discover the purpose and meaning of ones life. Others say the purpose is obvious to all; to serve their God.

I think those people are full of shit.

I think people look for the meaning or purpose of life because they want a reason; We humans are like that, we tend to want to know "why everything", demanding explanations. It's as if the desire to have the universe revolve around and cater to us is an inbred trait.

The purpose of life itself is simply self-propagation.

The purpose of human life, propagation.

The purpose of an individual? Who gives a fuck! We have too short a time on this rock to care about philosobull shit like this, stop pondering and start doing.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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08-05-2013, 06:37 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
(08-05-2013 06:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Well, wow!

Fuck me sideways.

I actually found myself agreeing with Egor.

It all hinges on the definition of 'purpose'...
Goal?
Objective?
Value?
Meaning?
Vision?
Mission?

Ultimately and I mean really, really ultimately, at the end of all things... 'purpose' is indeed vanity.

Smile

Indeed it does. I think that "purpose" and "meaning" are being interchanged improperly. "Meaning" for a sentient being will include your list above, "purpose" on the other hand presupposes we, individually and collectively, have an overseer IMO.

The purpose of this post is to clarify.
The meaning of this post is subjective to interpretation.

BTW Congrats on hitting the 5000 Likes received and given Yes

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08-05-2013, 07:22 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
(07-05-2013 10:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I think people realize that their life is insignificant and meaningless so they try to give it some purpose via religion instead of doing something actual productive because it's easier.

[sarcasm]Yeah, something actually productive, such as portraying myself on a message board as more significant than most everyone else. That's way more productive than religious folks doing the same thing, of course.[/sarcasm]

But really, I'm curious if you have known many religious people. While it's been years since I believed in any deity, I was raised a Christian, dwelt much on what I was taught, and subsequently had a strong sense of human purpose. Not once did I try to give life purpose, because I just believed purpose was an inherent part of existence, same as gravity and whatnot. As my belief in God came to an end, I certainly went through a period in which I felt life was insignificant and meaningless, but even then my mind unconsciously held on to the idea of purpose for a while. Once I came to the conclusion that I had no basis for believing in a purpose intended by some deity, I made no effort to give my life such a purpose.

In many ways, life was easier while believing in God's purpose, but in many other ways, life is easier without such cumbersome beliefs.

(07-05-2013 10:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I have a very different outlook on life I like to think to most people.
Most people, certainly people I know, finish high school and either do 1 of 2 things. 1) Start work straight away or 2) go to university and start work after university.
Either way their lives all pan out the same, a whole bunch of education at the start followed by 50 years of 9-5 work, 1 and a quarter children and a spouse or two.

These observations remind me of my outlook when I was in elementary and secondary school, and I come from a rural culture primarily consisting of those two things panning out the same way, so I don't think your outlook is nearly as unique as you may think.

(07-05-2013 10:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  At the end of the day there is nothing extraordinary about it, you just lived the exact same life as billions of other people on this planet and billions more before you. Your neighbor may have a better TV then you, but so what, your lives are basically cookie cutter identical...

I consider your view ironic. If one accounts for every detail, one finds no two lives are identical, so the ability to perceive billions of lives as "cookie cutter identical" depends on ignoring many differing details between them. By applying enough of such ignorance to the "extraordinary", we can conclude that all the extraordinary lives are cookie cutter identical, too.

Perhaps that's why some people are content living their so-called insignificant lives.

(07-05-2013 04:32 PM)Egor Wrote:  Without a purpose, one might as well not be alive. And if no one else has a purpose, the human race might as well not be alive.

Some people don't see a purpose as the only reason to do anything, just as some don't see the absence of a purpose as a reason to sit on the couch all day or sleep in the streets all night.

As for your opinion on the homeless, I hope I'm wrong, but I get the impression you feel arrogant toward them. They may "just" live from place to place, bottle to bottle, and drug to drug, but every human being lives perceived objective to perceived objective whether or not they perceive an ultimate objective. We're all quite similar no matter how different we are.

(07-05-2013 04:32 PM)Egor Wrote:  You cannot create your own purpose in life. That's just fooling yourself and pretending to have a purpose. Let's say you like chemistry so you make it your purpose in life to find the next great drug or plastic material, you're still doing so in a universe that has no purpose and for people who have no purpose. Your work becomes mere vanity, because your whole life is vanity. You can become preoccupied, but you can't create a purpose for yourself.

Because "purpose" is abstract, people can consider anything a purpose for themselves regardless of whether or not there is a deity which intends for us to carry out a certain purpose. Some purposes we know we have, because we choose to carry them out, while some purposes we can only wonder about. I believe that's what Dom and Hennepin were getting at.

(07-05-2013 07:20 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  For someone who studies and thinks about life a lot Egor, you sure as hell just don't get it.

An explanation would help Egor "get it" much more than an insult does.

(07-05-2013 07:50 PM)Dom Wrote:  What a load of BS. Of course you can give your life a purpose if you like. Whether others have purpose doesn't have anything to do with it.

And most certainly YOU do not know who has and doesn't have a purpose. Lest you expand your woo to include mind reading.

I think it's quite clear that the kind of "purpose" Egor mentioned is different from the kind of "purpose" you mention here.

(08-05-2013 05:17 AM)Humakt Wrote:  The closest we get to a purpose, is a function. That function is propagate our genes.

"That" function? If function, as opposed to purpose, is the observed effect our life has, then certainly we can see that we fulfill more than just the function of propagating our genes.

(08-05-2013 06:03 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I think people look for the meaning or purpose of life because they want a reason; We humans are like that, we tend to want to know "why everything", demanding explanations. It's as if the desire to have the universe revolve around and cater to us is an inbred trait.

Wanting to have a reason and wanting to know "why everything" are not the same as wanting the universe to revolve around us or cater to us.
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08-05-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
To me, it pretty much is; many of us seem to expect the answers be handed to us on a platter.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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08-05-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
That may be, but not everyone does. Those who want the answers handed to them want to know the answers AND have the universe cater to them. Wanting answers doesn't inherently require wanting that catering.
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08-05-2013, 07:43 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
Simulation of future. It really ain't complicated. Tongue

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08-05-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
(08-05-2013 07:40 AM)fat cat Wrote:  That may be, but not everyone does. Those who want the answers handed to them want to know the answers AND have the universe cater to them. Wanting answers doesn't inherently require wanting that catering.

there is a reason why I call this stuff "Philososbull".

I'm not good at Philosobulling at all.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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08-05-2013, 07:49 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
Propagating genes is only a "purpose" if it aids the dominance of our species by adding numbers.

Our propagation is leading towards extinction, it is not evolving towards a better or more dominant species.

We are as dominant on earth as we are going to be. No creature is safe from us. Higher numbers only create issues like food supply and trash disposal and a myriad of others.

Propagation is an ill placed instinct anymore, most certainly not a purpose.

This instinct is inherent in all beings, but we as humans have outgrown it. It is a curse now, and not an aid to our species.

Put your emotions and instincts aside and look at it rationally!

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08-05-2013, 08:11 AM
RE: Why do some believe in a purpose?
Oh goody, someone made a detailed reply to one of my posts, this'll be good!

Quote:[sarcasm]Yeah, something actually productive, such as portraying myself on a message board as more significant than most everyone else. That's way more productive than religious folks doing the same thing, of course.[/sarcasm]

Son, good things take time. My life is like a fine cheese. You make it in like 5minutes of hard pounding, then you let nature run it's course until it reaches perfection.

Think of me as a huge block of cheese sitting on a shelf in a cellar somewhere in Europe. Just you wait until this block of cheese comes out to be eaten, you will see son, you will see...

Quote:But really, I'm curious if you have known many religious people. While it's been years since I believed in any deity, I was raised a Christian, dwelt much on what I was taught, and subsequently had a strong sense of human purpose. Not once did I try to give life purpose, because I just believed purpose was an inherent part of existence, same as gravity and whatnot. As my belief in God came to an end, I certainly went through a period in which I felt life was insignificant and meaningless, but even then my mind unconsciously held on to the idea of purpose for a while. Once I came to the conclusion that I had no basis for believing in a purpose intended by some deity, I made no effort to give my life such a purpose.

In many ways, life was easier while believing in God's purpose, but in many other ways, life is easier without such cumbersome beliefs.

That's what I'm saying. You never looked for purpose because your religion had that bit covered.

You said it yourself, once you stopped believing in God you started thinking you had no purpose. Proof that God was a "purpose crutch".

Quote:These observations remind me of my outlook when I was in elementary and secondary school, and I come from a rural culture primarily consisting of those two things panning out the same way, so I don't think your outlook is nearly as unique as you may think.

No no, you misunderstand. That, the work, 9-5, kids, spouse etc.. is everyone else's outlook on life.
I have no intention of any of that because my outlook on life is very different.
That's what I'm saying.

Quote:I consider your view ironic. If one accounts for every detail, one finds no two lives are identical, so the ability to perceive billions of lives as "cookie cutter identical" depends on ignoring many differing details between them. By applying enough of such ignorance to the "extraordinary", we can conclude that all the extraordinary lives are cookie cutter identical, too.

Perhaps that's why some people are content living their so-called insignificant lives.

[sarcasm]Sure, every life is unique and different, you keep telling yourself that...
You ARE special, you ARE unique, you ARE meaningful...
Yeah, Okay..[/sarcasm]

It is cookie cutter. Education - Work - Married - Kids - Retire - Die.
*Yawn*

Extraordinary lives are extraordinary because they stand out.
ie: Sir Edmund Hillary, the guy on our $5 note. He lived an extraordinary life.
First man to climb Everest (and not die). Did HEAPS of humanitarian work in Nepal (which he got knighted for). He lived an amazing life and he will be remembered for it.
Were you first to climb Mount Everest? What revolutions have you led? What planets have you discovered? What moon were you first to walk on? Why should I even know who you are?

This is the difference.



People are content with living their average insignificant lives because it's comfortable and easy to them. They have no drive, mediocre is enough for them.
Some of us want more. Some of us wont be happy with anything short of first.
I'd rather try and fail miserably then live a cookie cutter life. That's the difference between you and me.

It doesn't even matter. What do I care if kids 200 years from now are learning my name in history class? I'd be dead. But hey, that's all part of it. They'll be learning my name, not yours. Take it as you will. I don't expect someone who thinks their average insignificant life actually means anything significant to understand.

Quote:An explanation would help Egor "get it" much more than an insult does.

Son, you don't even know the guy. Trust me, it wouldn't.

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